El Paso mass murder

[Texan]

Personally, I think that anybody who demands that people be unarmed should be held responsible for their safety. Guns in the hands of law abiding civilians should only be forbidden in jails, police stations, military bases, and courthouses. That's pretty much the law in Texas, but we also recognize private property rights and I have no problem with people setting their own rules on their own property. I am not required to go to someone's private property, so it's fair.

I like my job, so I don't carry into customer's sites. I'm a field engineer and I work at industrial sites and am dispatched from my house. I don't carry at school events or on federal property. Everywhere else is legal for me and I almost always carry there. It's more of a habit now and I hardly think about it.

I do not understand. How can any property owner (say Walmart) overcome the right to bear arms as stated in the Consitution? Are the gun free zones just for voluntary compliance or is there some Law about it.

As a private property owner, Walmart can prohibit the carrying of guns on their property. The public has no right to dictate to Walmart a gun policy on their premises. The public can only influence Walmart with their $$$$. Walmart can post the proper signs tomorrow and ban guns from their premises, but they would lose a lot of customers and won't do it. They could even have their greeters at the door verbally tell every Walmart customer that concealed guns are not allowed and it would be a valid notice in Texas. This is the sign required to prevent concealed carry by those with a license to do so in Texas.



I can either post a sign or give written or verbal notice to guests in my house to forbid guns on my property. That's the law. Although, I think a "gun free zone" sign might as well say "Rob me!".

The short version is, my gun rights don't trump your private property rights.

[Wally Raffles]

Okay. Thanks.

I have to say that it seems strange that a private property owner can extinguish an inalienable right confirmed in the Constitution.

[Texan]

Okay. Thanks.

I have to say that it seems strange that a private property owner can extinguish an inalienable right confirmed in the Constitution.

Don't think of it as extinguishing a right as much as barring people from entering your private property until certain conditions are met. I don't have to enter that private property and cannot demand the right to enter unconditionally. Walmart cannot force me to disarm if I'm not on their property. I still have my rights, I just also have a choice to make about whether or not I will agree to their conditions.

[BigP]

Personally, I think that anybody who demands that people be unarmed should be held responsible for their safety. Guns in the hands of law abiding civilians should only be forbidden in jails, police stations, military bases, and courthouses. That's pretty much the law in Texas, but we also recognize private property rights and I have no problem with people setting their own rules on their own property. I am not required to go to someone's private property, so it's fair.

I like my job, so I don't carry into customer's sites. I'm a field engineer and I work at industrial sites and am dispatched from my house. I don't carry at school events or on federal property. Everywhere else is legal for me and I almost always carry there. It's more of a habit now and I hardly think about it.

I do not understand. How can any property owner (say Walmart) overcome the right to bear arms as stated in the Consitution? Are the gun free zones just for voluntary compliance or is there some Law about it.

Private property is private property is private property Wal

[Serial Brain 9]

Personally, I preferred my L1a1.

Struth - how old are you?

The SLR was an excellent rifle but you wouldn't use them in modern warfare.

It's all about getting rounds down range as fast and as many as you can these days. American Style

Steyr rifles are lighter, better scoped, easier to clean and could shoot on full auto. They also use NATO rounds so if you ran out you can get some more off your allies

I'm happy to carry the pistol - after all, plenty of diggers carrying Steyrs

[brian ross]

Personally, I preferred my L1a1.

Struth - how old are you?

Old enough to have learnt how use a .303 SMLE Mk.III/III*, young 'un.

The SLR was an excellent rifle but you wouldn't use them in modern warfare.

It's all about getting rounds down range as fast and as many as you can these days. American Style

Steyr rifles are lighter, better scoped, easier to clean and could shoot on full auto. They also use NATO rounds so if you ran out you can get some more off your allies

I'm happy to carry the pistol - after all, plenty of diggers carrying Steyrs

The F88 Steyr is an excellent weapon. I've also learnt how to use one of those, along with M16s. What about you, Mechie? How many firearms have you been taught how to handle professionally?

[Bogan]

The only thing wrong with the L1A1 SLR was it's stamped receiver which precluded the fitting of optical sights. Of course, there were side mountings available which allowed the use of optical sights, but these mountings were nowhere near as rigid as sights affixed firmly onto a machined receiver. My own preference for going to war would be the US M14, arguably the best battle rifle ever made. Throwing a zillion rounds downrange and hoping to hit something is OK if you have a good supply system. Here in Australia, we closed down our ability to manufacture our own ammunition, and I believe that bullets for the Australian Armed forces are now manufactured in China. So when we go to war with China, we had better put in a very large ammunition order with our enemy before we commence hostilities.

The next thing wrong with western assault rifles is the paucity of power of the 5.56 mm round. The L1A1 hit with the force of a ton. During the Falklands War, a unit of the SAS armed with Armalites teamed up with a team of paratroopers armed with L1A1 rifles to storm a house occupied by a large group of Argentine infantry men. One soldier remarked upon the effectiveness of the Armalites and the SLR. Enemy soldiers shot by the SLR went down and stayed down. Enemy soldiers hit by Armalites usually kept fighting, needing to be hit two or three times before they went down. Conclusion? Semi auto rifles firing full powered 7.62 rounds were more effective than selective fire "assault" rifles firing underpowered rabbit calibre bullets.

This was in the days of the "tumbling bullet" 55 grain round which tried to compensate for it's lack of hitting power by being so unstable that it would turn sideways after impact, in order to give a hollow point/ dum dum effect. The subsequent change from 55 grain to the new 62 grain SS109 round completely negated this lethal effect, so today's assault rifles have even less lethality than those of the Vietnam and Falkland's war.

So, it is not surprising that the US is now developing a whole new round for it's M4 assault rifle, being 7.00 mm. Ironically, this was the same calibre rejected by the USA when the Brits tried to make their "bullpup" style rifle the NATO standard rifle, back in the late 50's. The US insisted upon the 7.62, and then insisted that all NATO adopt it. Then the US gave their allies the finger by adopting the 5.56 round instead and made everybody else throw away their 7.62 rifles and adopt this new and atrocious round. This bullet is more suitable for rabbit shooting than fighting against an armed human opponent.

The only conclusion to be drawn was that the Nazi Germans and the Sovs got it almost right when they adopted .30 callable rounds for their assault rifles, while the British were absolutely correct when they proposed the 7mm (.280 inch) round for all NATO assault rifles.

[brian ross]

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. All Australian military small arms ammunition is manufactured in Australia.

In 1945, the original old Footscray ammunition factory (MF) was finally closed, as were the facilities at Hendon (MH & MJ), Rocklea (MQ), and Welshpool (MW). The second Footscray facility was later redesignated from MG to MF in 1949.

In 1986 Albion Explosives Factory was closed due to suburban encroachment. Production was moved to Mulwala Explosives Factory (MEF), New South Wales in 1988. Mulwala Explosives Factory was privatised in 2011 and then bought out by Thales Australia Ltd.

In 1989 the Australian government nationalised munitions manufacture under a government-owned company called Australian Defence Industries (Ltd.).[11] Its first round of business was to consolidate and regulate ordnance production.[11] The Explosives Factory Maribyrnong complex was closed during restructuring later that year.

Production at Ammunition Factory Footscray (AFF) was slowly wound down beginning in 1991 until it was closed in 1994.[12] A new factory run by Australian Defence Industries was opened elsewhere at Benalla, Victoria. When ADI was bought out by Thales in 2006, ADI was renamed Thales Australia Ltd. In 2012 Thales Australia spun off its factories at Benalla and Mulwalla to form the Australian Munitions group. It is also responsible for managing any Australian military logistical functions involving munitions[13].

Benalla still uses the ADI headstamp from 1994 to as recently as 2014. Production of 5.56mm NATO F1 Ball resumed in 1995 and F1A1 Ball began in c.2010. Both cartridges are similar, but the F1A1 ammo has a green meplat tip and the headstamp has dimples at the 3 and 9 o'clock position (a peculiarity of the electric bunter used by the new cartridge-making machinery). 5.56mm NATO F3 Blank production began in 1998 and is produced in batches every three years. Production of .50 BMG M33 Ball began in 1999 and 7.62mm NATO F4 Ball began in 2008. Since they now only produce Ball ammunition, headstamps since 1995 only include the contractor code at 12 o'clock and the two-digit production year at 6 o'clock. It also produces 20mm autocannon rounds and will possibly begin production of 81mm mortar shells as part of a 5-year reorganization plan[14].

Since 2014 Australian Munitions produces civilian market ammunition under the Australian Outback brand. Civilian ammunition is in .223 Remington, .243 Winchester, .300 Blackout, and .308 Winchester and military surplus is in 5.56mm NATO F1A1 Ball and 7.62mm NATO F4 Ball. The civilian cartridges use Sierra- and Swift-brand match and hunting bullets with a special high-temperature-tolerant propellant.

[Source]

Made in China? In your imagination perhaps.

[Bogan]

Thank goodness, Brian. I was referring to an article published some years ago in Sporting Shooter which lamented that the Australian government has announced that was closing down Australian production of military ammunition within Australia, and that it would probably be manufactured overseas.

It looks like somebody in the Australian government changed their minds. I look forward to you writing an article claiming that this proves the Australian government are all "idiots" because they changed there minds, exactly as you wrote an article slamming Pauline Hanson over changing her mind about whether tourists should climb Ayers Rock.

Incidentally, on the subject of Ayers Rock. I'll bet that all of those religious and cultural objections the "indigenous" people who live near Ayers Rock have to tourists climbing it would disappear like magic is the local tribe could charge $20 bucks for every tourist who wanted to climb the damned thing. I did it once. Damned near killed me.

[brian ross]

Thank goodness, Brian. I was referring to an article published some years ago in Sporting Shooter which lamented that the Australian government has announced that was closing down Australian production of military ammunition within Australia, and that it would probably be manufactured overseas.

It looks like somebody in the Australian government changed their minds. I look forward to you writing an article claiming that this proves the Australian government are all "idiots" because they changed there minds, exactly as you wrote an article slamming Pauline Hanson over changing her mind about whether tourists should climb Ayers Rock.

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Appears you're a long way behind the curve there, Bogan. Time to catch up with the real world of the 21st century it seems.