Iraq Holds the elections this forum opposed...again.

[JW Frogen]

Pendants do not rule the world Endy, they do not really do anything at all.

Saddam violated his 1991 cease-fire agreement, almost immediately, which is under international law is suffiecent grounds to resume war immediately. (He had no treaty.)

Then he violated over 12 more UN resolutions including 1441, for over a decade, his final chance, which Bush made perfectly clear meant war if he did.

That is why there was already a war in Iraq, you may want to read about the No Fly Zones where more sortes were flown than in the First Gulf War.

We were already at war.

Now you on the left may bend over backwards for the benefit of mass killing tyrants, even if it means destroying what little credibility the UN has ever had (the US being the one and only major power who has ever had UN sanction for many of it’s wars) but do not pretend your defense of Saddam is in any way a support of international law.

Even that nebulous concept has more dignity than you are willing to defend.

[Postul8]

Pendants do not rule the world Endy, they do not really do anything at all.

Saddam violated his 1991 cease-fire agreement, almost immediately, which is under international law is suffiecent grounds to resume war immediately. (He had no treaty.)

Then he violated over 12 more UN resolutions including 1441, for over a decade, his final chance, which Bush made perfectly clear meant war if he did.

That is why there was already a war in Iraq, you may want to read about the No Fly Zones where more sortes were flown than in the First Gulf War.

We were already at war.

Now you on the left may bend over backwards for the benefit of mass killing tyrants, even if it means destroying what little credibility the UN has ever had (the US being the one and only major power who has ever had UN sanction for many of it’s wars) but do not pretend your defense of Saddam is in any way a support of international law.

Even that nebulous concept has more dignity than you are willing to defend.

There is no point attempting to discuss realities with you, Frogen because you refuse to acknowledge them. The original Gulf War, which you claim to have been a part of, ended in 1991 because your CinC couldn't bite the bullet and carry on. Instead, he backed away and left the real job to a later age, a less capable age and a much less capable administration. Cease fire it may have been, but to all intents and purposes, despite your vaunted no-fly zones, that conflict had ended. Pretend all you want but realities often overwhelm facts. The simple reality being that Bush Snr wouldn't pursue Hussein to the ultimate end for fear of incurring the wrath his son incurred 15 years later is proof positive of that. Don't be so blindly naive, Frogen. Recognise the political realities of the situation.

Recognise that what Dubya did in 2003 was planned as far ahead as November 2001. Recognise the power behind the throne lay with the hard rightwing think tanks in Washington, and not with popular opinion. Recognise that fact that people's opinions were never taken into account. Recognise the fact that far, far more Iraqi civilians have died for what you claim to be righteous justification of an illegal act than would have died had the job been finished when it ought to have been.

Recognise above all else, Frogen, that International Law is the only thread holding the civilised world - if indeed such a thing exists - together. Roosevelt and Evatt knew what they were doing in the formation of the United Nations. As flawed as it may be, it remains the last hope for global communications at the diplomatic level in one forum. Whether you & yours agree, like it or grumble incessantly, that reality cannot be avoided. What Dubya/Cheney did in 2003 was blatantly illegal and history has recorded it as such. Spruik all you like to the contrary, but the reality is unavoidable.

And therein lies the fault not only within your argument, Frogen, but within your self. You simply refuse to address reality.

[JW Frogen]

What reality? The one you know nothing about.

The reality you are willing to impose on the Iraqi people without knowing of experiencing the first thing about them?

That reality? Your personal reality?

What do you have to learn from the people actually living it? I mean really now, your reality is more important than their reality.

The first Gulf War ended on a cease-fire, not treaty. End, that is reality.

I cease fire I know was violated because Iraq never returned or told the Kuwaiti people what happened to the Kuwaitis they disappeared. (One family being of special interest to me.)

Then Saddam violated over 12 UN resolutions, and 1441. Welcome to reality.

What, is the UN always to be confined to begging pretty please to petty tyrants like with Zimbabwe.

President Bush gave them a chance to be relevant, to mean what they say, and they could not mean it.

They never will, just ask the dead from Srebrenica.

Had enough reality yet?

[Postul8]

What reality? The one you know nothing about.

The reality you are willing to impose on the Iraqi people without knowing of experiencing the first thing about them?

That reality? Your personal reality?

What do you have to learn from the people actually living it? I mean really now, your reality is more important than their reality.

The first Gulf War ended on a cease-fire, not treaty. End, that is reality.

I cease fire I know was violated because Iraq never returned or told the Kuwaiti people what happened to the Kuwaitis they disappeared. (One family being of special interest to me.)

Then Saddam violated over 12 UN resolutions, and 1441. Welcome to reality.

What, is the UN always to be confined to begging pretty please to petty tyrants like with Zimbabwe.

President Bush gave them a chance to be relevant, to mean what they say, and they could not mean it.

They never will, just ask the dead from Srebrenica.

Had enough reality yet?

Yeh

[Ethnic]

postul8 I sincerely hope you're just kidding with those views you post. George Snr should have finished Madass Hussein but he didn’t. His son did. Get over it. You seem angry that GWB didn’t give a rat’s arse of what peaceniks with little life experience thought about invading Iraq. I don’t know about you but I’m glad that someone in this world had the guts to remove that brutal bastard who took sick pleasure out of murdering innocent men and having their wives and daughters raped and tortured while the UN, EU and Middle East just sat back and watched. Alas it seems the peaceniks would rather the Iraqis suffer in silence to satisfy their warped idea of peace. Iraq will improve and the Iraqis will win against the al-qaeda goon terrorists responsible for most of casualties all while Madass burns in hell.

Good to see there are still a few schmucks who think the United Nations actually does…..well what do they do? Something about oil-for-food corruption? A little birdy also informed me of the UN’s love for driving expensive cars and dining on expensive meals while the people they’re apparently supposed to protect continue to starve and be oppressed. What a life, no wonder Kevin Rudd wants to join. Fuck the UN. They can't even do the simple task of condemning (Israel, Zimbabwe, North Korea etc) because they're forever being vetoed. Useless.

[Postul8]

postul8 I sincerely hope you're just kidding with those views you post. George Snr should have finished Madass Hussein but he didn’t. His son did. Get over it. You seem angry that GWB didn’t give a rat’s arse of what peaceniks with little life experience thought about invading Iraq. I don’t know about you but I’m glad that someone in this world had the guts to remove that brutal bastard who took sick pleasure out of murdering innocent men and having their wives and daughters raped and tortured while the UN, EU and Middle East just sat back and watched. Alas it seems the peaceniks would rather the Iraqis suffer in silence to satisfy their warped idea of peace. Iraq will improve and the Iraqis will win against the al-qaeda goon terrorists responsible for most of casualties all while Madass burns in hell.

Good to see there are still a few schmucks who think the United Nations actually does…..well what do they do? Something about oil-for-food corruption? A little birdy also informed me of the UN’s love for driving expensive cars and dining on expensive meals while the people they’re apparently supposed to protect continue to starve and be oppressed. What a life, no wonder Kevin Rudd wants to join. Fuck the UN. They can't even do the simple task of condemning (Israel, Zimbabwe, North Korea etc) because they're forever being vetoed. Useless.

I wouldn't write what I don't know to be true

[Ethnic]

I wouldn't write what I don't know to be true

Pfft, clearly your arrogance knows no boundaries. Need a tinfoil hat?

http://riverdaughter.files.wordpress.co ... l_hat1.jpg

[Jovial Monk]

Froges, sorry, you have blown your credibility on military matters. You know how to get it back.

[JW Frogen]

I think you have to wait seven years.

The same amount of time it will take one to shit after they eat your cooking.

[Roger Mellie]

I think you have to wait seven years.

The same amount of time it will take one to shit after they eat your cooking.

Ahhhh Frogen, your cupboard is still bare I see. Any news when your ebay medals are going to arrive?

And Aussie, surely by now, even a intellectually challenged individual such as yourself might be wondering why your hero has not posted any proof beyond a promise to text someone some details of his adventures?

In fact intelligent members might be wondering why he has not dusted off some of his memorabilia and got his wife to take some pictures of it.

Intelligent members might conclude that he has nothing he can post that will substantiate he has ever served at all. Not one thing. Not even a pair of dogtags. Its not a good look for the medalled “warrior” as he has self styled himself all over the internet.

Intelligent members (rest Aussie, this does not include you) would conclude that Frogen is just another anonymous person on the internet who to make up for a rather sad life has embellished his details and pretends to be a medalled soldier.....with a big cock. Its all very fantasy life. Its all very schoolboy telling storys.