The amorality of badness

[AiA in Atlanta]

No, I'm saying that before you can make a moral judgement, you must first decide if a moral or amoral action has occurred.

Okay. Yet that decision needs more self-awareness than the average person has.

Yes. And that awareness should be derived from knowledge born of moral education.

Neither of us are saying that the average person is incapable of moral awareness, just that they haven't been taught. Over the past few decades there has been an mass exodus from religion across western nations. WASPS are no longer vogue.

That means people aren't getting their weekly dose of moral education, which has been the traditional place of teaching morality to the masses for centuries. But there has been nothing to take its place... and it only takes a couple of generations for a society to loose social knowledge.

The moral life is necessary for civilizations to thrive and survive. Perhaps it's time to teach secular morality in our schools.

A revival of Plato's Academy?

[The Artist formerly known as Sappho]

Yes. And that awareness should be derived from knowledge born of moral education.

Neither of us are saying that the average person is incapable of moral awareness, just that they haven't been taught. Over the past few decades there has been an mass exodus from religion across western nations. WASPS are no longer vogue.

That means people aren't getting their weekly dose of moral education, which has been the traditional place of teaching morality to the masses for centuries. But there has been nothing to take its place... and it only takes a couple of generations for a society to loose social knowledge.

The moral life is necessary for civilizations to thrive and survive. Perhaps it's time to teach secular morality in our schools.

A revival of Plato's Academy?

Not at all, I've never been a fan of Plato... too elitist by far. I'm thinking more of a replacement for religious education in state schools and an adjunct to private school curricula.

[Outlaw Yogi]

I thought ethics was already part of some secular institutions curriculum.

[The Artist formerly known as Sappho]

I don't think the problem is mainly due to a reduction in religious indoctrination, but rather the fact that we have moved into a society where you don't know your neighbour.

The most 2 most significant things, I think, to come from the Industrial Revolution, was the urbanization of nations and the creation of the nuclear mobile family... and all that they entailed.

Now we are in the midst of a Technological Revolution which is transforming the way in which we communicate with one another and how we view communities and who our neighbours are.

It used to be that we lived in small to medium sized communities, where everyone knew of any "immoral acts" that you perpetrated. Now we live in mega cities, consisting of millions of others.

Technocats have communities, located on social network and message board sites. In most cases, people know their next door neighbours and school (with kids) and work communities. People are still inclined to be engaged with clubs of some kind of outdoorsy pursuit.

Therefore, I think you are wrong.

It's far to easy to hide your immorality when you can just screw people over, and then move on to a fresh start with a whole new set of suckers.

Is it easier to hide immorality where the society is not morally aware, do you think?

[The Artist formerly known as Sappho]

I thought ethics was already part of some secular institutions curriculum.

I'm not sure about other states but not in Victoria, except perhaps as an nebulous academic thing for Higher School Tertiary Entry Scores... but nothing as I've suggested. I think that one hour of practical, age appropriate, ethics and morality per week during primary and secondary school would be the best way to raise the moral awareness of society.

Never know... once they understand how their world operates and who is impacted by same, they may become less tolerant of the status quo...

[boxy]

It used to be that we lived in small to medium sized communities, where everyone knew of any "immoral acts" that you perpetrated. Now we live in mega cities, consisting of millions of others.

Technocats have communities, located on social network and message board sites. In most cases, people know their next door neighbours and school (with kids) and work communities. People are still inclined to be engaged with clubs of some kind of outdoorsy pursuit.

Therefore, I think you are wrong.

The point isn't that people "know" their neighbours... as in, now their names, and that they have kids... and a few other trivialities.

The point is, it used to be that your neighbours were your whole world. You knew pretty much everything about them, because there was no "hopping in the car, and going to town". Your community was your whole world. You traded with only them, you partied with only them... you married, only them... mostly.

Urbanisation has encouraged immorality, not through less "education" in the moral arts, but through being able to move on far too easily from bad decisions.

Morality is still taught to us, BTW, through mass media. Artistic works, encouraging and exploring our collective beliefs. In fact, it may mean that in effect, we are more in agreement as to what is "right and wrong" than in past times... it's just that it becomes easier to get away with wronging your neighbour...

[AiA in Atlanta]

Thought about this thread while staying in a hotel on a business trip this week. I could have taken the towels, the compact fluorescent lightbulbs and more. Would it have hurt anyone? Well, am sure the cost (theft) of those items was already built into the room charge ... but I never considered doing it. Why? It lacks integrity.

[boxy]

But it does cost people. Everyone who stays in a hotel room has to pay that little bit more because of the arseclowns who steal the fittings.

But then, evolution has ensured that "badness" has been written into our DNA, from way back in our history. Sad fact is, that it's totally logical to cheat the rest of society, when you don't get caught, and you don't harm society enough to affect your own safety.

[The Artist formerly known as Sappho]

But it does cost people. Everyone who stays in a hotel room has to pay that little bit more because of the arseclowns who steal the fittings.

Pfft... that's just what they say because they can say it... In reality the price is derived from finding the elastic sweet spot in a supply/ demand graph. At best it is factored in as an insurance cost and as a payment to offset their tax obligation. But what the hey... I won't let reality get in the way of a good moral story. I wonder though, is the idea of stealing or not stealing incidentals from a hotel a moral consideration? Not in most cases would be my answer.

Who exactly is harmed? What is the situation which leads into the act of stealing an incidental item from the hotel?

[Outlaw Yogi]

I don't think the problem is mainly due to a reduction in religious indoctrination,

Nor do I.

... but rather the fact that we have moved into a society where you don't know your neighbour. It used to be that we lived in small to medium sized communities, where everyone knew of any "immoral acts" that you perpetrated. Now we live in mega cities, consisting of millions of others. It's far to easy to hide your immorality when you can just screw people over, and then move on to a fresh start with a whole new set of suckers.

Maybe. Not really sure to be honest.

I have a really bad neighbor. Imagines he's better than everyone else around him and is constantly causing dramas for someone. Originally he started on me, but I let him know being a nuisance would cost him money. I'm forever hearing allegations of things I'm supposed to have done which I know nothing about. I have told neighbors "If he wants a war, I'll give him one". Am told he reckons he's going to run me out of the valley. Which is funny 'coz I've had my block for 19-20 years and have friends amoungst my neighbors. He's been there less that 5 years and has alienated everyone.
More recently he's been targeting my next block neighbors. Someone smashed his pebble-crete cement letterbox shortly before Xmas, so he poison baited my next block neighbors dog.

So now the war has begun ..

He has done this to the fense (on my land) near the rear of my block >

knomes in troll territory (30%).JPG

And now I am doing this on my side fence along his access track >

Decoration.jpg