Multiple births via IVF - when is enough enough?

[mantra]

I watched a show last night about an Australian woman whose husband was infertile, but she wanted lots of kids. After numerous IVF treatments (each costing approx. $8,000) she conceived - but had serious health problems which required major surgery after the birth of a girl.

She made another 18 IVF attempts ($144,000 approx). She conceived quads, but they were born by caesarian 13 weeks premature. Each baby was in intensive care for 10 weeks @ $100,000 per child per week (cost $4,000,000). Immediately after she returned for further IVF treatment, although she almost lost her life. She got pregnant again with quads who were born 11 weeks premature - one died. Three babies in intensive care for another 10 weeks (cost $3,000,000).

She returned straight away again to IVF (can't remember how many treatments - but say 3 = $24,000) and had another baby girl.

IVF treatment was then denied after the 9th child, but she went online for a donor and conceived twins. Her water broke at 10 weeks - so she was bedridden for the next 22 weeks. Who looked after all these babies and what was the cost to the health system during each pregnancy?

Again - after the twins - she went online for a donor, fell pregant and had another child.

Even looking at the baby bonuses - $55,000 - you've got the $7 million cost of the two sets of quads in intensive care, plus major surgery - perhaps another $100,000 conservatively plus the cost of raising them. The husband earnt $1400 per week, but there would be a hefty family allowance for 11 children - $2200 per fortnight at least. Then there's the $200,000 worth of IVF & fertility treatment.

The mother regardless of the warnings about her health wants more. It is her right she says and people should mind their own business - but is it her right if she can't do it alone? Just conceiving and giving birth has cost the government nearly $8 million dollars and payments in government allowances alone will be approx. $60,000 per year for the next 18 years.

It is estimated it will cost the family $2 million to raise these children - but the cost to the taxpayers will exceed over $10 million possibly a lot more.

The Chalk family of Brisbane are truly Packed to the Rafters.

Dad Darren and mum Dale have 11 children all under the age of 8 -and they’re not done yet.

Dale Chalk made history when she became the world’s first mother to conceive ‘back to back quads’ but their desire for a large family has put them in the spotlight.

They have been subjected to criticism from both public, media and medical experts, and now in a documentary for LifeStyle You they tell their story.

http://www.tvtonight.com.au/2011/11/11- ... -more.html

[mellie]

This woman should have thanked her lucky stars she was able to have one baby via IVF..what is she trying to do, out do octamom in America?




Given the complications, I would have just been thankful we were blessed with one, .... and you are absolutely right Mantra, her husbands income wont keep this tribe, and she's too busy having litters of children to work with what will probably end up being a ruptured uterus at best, some people push their luck dont they.



Big families are lovely, but one has to procreate within their means.

Their either mad or opportunists and having babies for the money.. most likely both.

[boxy]

Leeches. Pure and simple.

Western society is all about entitlement.

"I have a right to breed, and god help me I WILL breed, even if you have to pay for it!"

[mellie]

Not just western society Boxy, given there are other populations of people procreating beyond their means all over the world, for what might be deemed by some as equally selfish reasons, ie-- Some famished African populations whom knowingly breed beyond their means and to a point whereby they know they're condemning their children to death before conception has taken place in some instances. This and refuse to abstain for a self perceived entitlement/right to produce as many impoverished/famished in some cases diseased off-spring as they please.

This and continue reproducing knowing they rely on aid to nourish themselves and their off-spring.


Why do they do this?

Be they western or non-western?




I can only guess, (and it's only my opinion, I might be wrong) but it's clear there are people like this all over the world who do the same thing in a round about way, be it abuse of fertility services, benefits or aid.

A cultural self perceived entitlement, and or even a right perhaps in some cases?

But in the above case, (re-the IVF couple) I'm inclined to agree with you re- their sapping the system, taking it for granted, and or blatant madness and stupidity.

Again, a bit of both I think...to begin with, money aside, how can they face society knowing what most people think of them, this and sell the media their story?

Greed-madness + low IQ...?




Poor kids.

... Kiddie-mill even? Lol... Who knows why some people do the things they do, when half the time I don't even think they are sure of why they do these stupid things themselves.

[mantra]

Those with Foxtel might have seen this US family - the Duggars. At least the pregnancies were naturally conceived and they own a lot of property to support their large family. Still the 19th baby was born at about 23 weeks and spent months in intensive care and the 20th child passed away 6 months into the pregnancy.

[mellie]

OMG, two people made all this?

Wow.. Well, if they can afford to care for them, then good and well...I guess.

My grandmother had 16 siblings, though two died of TB (They were in their late teens or early 20's when they died) and they lived in a massive home.

They must employ nannies to assist, because how on earth would you be able to take care of so many toddlers and attend to domestic chores and or go to work ..this and still have enough time to spend quality time with each of them if you didn't?

My great grandparents spaced their brood well... so by the time the first 6 or so were in their teens, they got their second wind.

My Grandmother had a good childhood, went to dance classes with her sisters, and always went to the movies with her siblings, (Didn't seem to suffer during the depression like so many family's did, or if she did, she didn't complain about it that's for sure, she always had lovely dresses, and her father had a secure council job, (what this was I am not sure) and I think her mother being catholic and her father a staunch Methodist had something to do with it, ( a couple of sets of twins in there also I believe)... he would come home from work and give them cupey dolls.. the dolls on sticks and my grandmother had quite a collection.

I love children, and love being a mum, but I think 17 is quite daunting, I have no idea how my great grandmother kept sane.



.... My great grandfather too for that matter. Holly molly!
No wonder he was always out racing pigeons the poor bugger, he was probably trying to escape... Nooo, he loved his kids dearly, my grandmother spoke highly of her childhood, especially her father.


Just looking at that photo Mantra overwhelms me, this is what my grandmothers living room must have looked like when she was a child. Even if quite a few of the older ones had moved out and married by the time the younger ones were growing up.

Unbelievable.

[mantra]

They must employ nannies to assist, because how on earth would you be able to take care of so many toddlers and attend to domestic chores and or go to work ..this and still have enough time to spend quality time with each of them if you didn't?

All the children are home schooled. They've been taught sewing, housekeeping, midwifery, carpentry, electricals, mechanics and all of them have learnt the piano and violin. The mother has the babies, breastfeeds them, then passes them onto the daughters who raise them. The father supervises and teaches the children life skills. The mother is solely there as a baby incubator who cares for them until they're weaned and she revels in it and is cheerful and bubbly. The family is highly organised, the kids are intelligent and articulate. They wear second hand clothes, are good Christians and do lots of charity work.

The perfect family as seen through American television.

[mellie]

They must employ nannies to assist, because how on earth would you be able to take care of so many toddlers and attend to domestic chores and or go to work ..this and still have enough time to spend quality time with each of them if you didn't?

All the children are home schooled. They've been taught sewing, housekeeping, midwifery, carpentry, electricals, mechanics and all of them have learnt the piano and violin. The mother has the babies, breastfeeds them, then passes them onto the daughters who raise them. The father supervises and teaches the children life skills. The mother is solely there as a baby incubator who cares for them until they're weaned and she revels in it and is cheerful and bubbly. The family is highly organised, the kids are intelligent and articulate. They wear second hand clothes, are good Christians and do lots of charity work.

The perfect family as seen through American television.

Amish?



Well, she sure leaves Mrs Brady for dead... all those kids... And for what it's worth, I don't think my great grandparents did this on purpose, their neighbours had big families also, around the same age...massive families were all the rage back then, (no contraception and after the war, we needed to expand our population) ...thank goodness times have changed.
I'm surprised her uterus hasn't ruptured... just looking at that pic leaves me breathless, it's like this family are from another time, early 1900's.

This said, If they are happy, then so be it, but it's definitely not something I would contemplate. Raising kids isn't cheap, I think it's selfish of her to expect her older children to take care of their siblings this way, these kids are missing the best years of their lives, this and have not had the opportunity to be kids themselves.

I think my grandmothers older siblings left home and married young so they didn't have to take care of their own siblings any-more...lol.

[mantra]

Well, she sure leaves Mrs Brady for dead... all those kids... And for what it's worth, I don't think my great grandparents did this on purpose, their neighbours had big families also, around the same age...massive families were all the rage back then, (no contraception and after the war, we needed to expand our population) ...thank goodness times have changed.
I'm surprised her uterus hasn't ruptured... just looking at that pic leaves me breathless, it's like this family are from another time, early 1900's.

This said, If they are happy, then so be it, but it's definitely not something I would contemplate. Raising kids isn't cheap, I think it's selfish of her to expect her older children to take care of their siblings this way, these kids are missing the best years of their lives, this and have not had the opportunity to be kids themselves.

I think my grandmothers older siblings left home and married young so they didn't have to take care of their own siblings any-more...lol.

It was around the Great Depression that huge families emerged. They would have a dozen or so, but a few would die either at birth or during their childhood. After the second world war - families became considerably smaller and I suppose it was because contraception was available then, although I've got no idea what they used.

The large family that I mentioned don't have TV and movies are monitored, but they still seem quite worldly wise and happy and appear to enjoy the simple things in life. They seem far more contented than the average family and are very similar to the Amish, but of course a lot more modern, although no kissing is allowed before marriage.

Still in this overpopulated world is it fair to add so many more mouths to feed? Families need to be limited if everyone is going to get fed.

[mellie]

They host their own reality TV show, NBC loves them, they have a family site that hosts Youtube clips ...thus I think the bit about their not watching TV is a little contrived.... given they are obviously churning $$$ from TV and NBC with paid interviews.

http://tlc.howstuffworks.com/tv/19-kids-and-counting

I'm bored with them already, and agree with you re- the population factor, I think they are starting some sort of Arkansanian deep-south American cult... I cant see it catching on, Amish did it better and they wear funny little hats and look like old fashion cake ornaments.


I could watch them all day. ... does anyone know of a local Amish community?

I have never seen one up close.



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