Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

[Hebe]

There you go. Is it possible to add it?

[JW Frogen]

I've stayed out of this debate as I'm a man and feel it is not my place to tell a woman what to do with their body, unlike you who in your typical yank style ride in here and force your inbred views on everyone else.
If a father rapes his child should she have his child?
If a man rapes his sister should she have his child?.

So no man can talk about the morality of a woman killing a life within her?

Only a woman can discuss this issue of life and death and how a society respects life, the seriousness with which a society will decide to take life? Under that logic no person who has never been to war can protest any war or discuss the just nature of any war.

Both premises are ridiculous, when a society decides it is legal to kill it makes a decision on behalf of the entire polity of the nation, it says we believe this killing is just.

Any intelligent person would what to think about and discuss if they believe the society is indeed making the right decision or taking life in a sense of decorum or gravity. Being intelligent and wanting to discuss the nature and justice of any form of killing is hardly a Yank thing, as ele proves there are Australians too who do not want to kill with a forgetful smile as if in some Disney cartoon. When I lived in Italy most Italians, even Italian women I met foun the easy way US, British and Australian women go about killing the unborn an offense against the very idea of civilisation.

The argument that Australians are some how superior because they want this form of killing done quietly and unquestioned does no favour to the fetal killing shore.

Sorry, I don’t agree killing should be as easy as clipping a toenail.

As to the various conditions of abortion, I have grown tolerant to thick people over the years on PA; indeed I enjoy their dense receptivity, how simple concepts elude them like a Hong Kong drug dealer trying to find Nirvana.

But I am tolerant and kind so I will repeat, once again, yes again, I do not oppose all abortion, indeed support the current law on the subject, I simply do not believe we should degrade the definition of life and our own humanity by pretending it is not killing.

That you three assume any serious examination of that form of killing is automatically opposition to that killing reveals a reflexive defense of that killing, that you have not seriously though of it at all, made no reasoned arrival to it’s just nature.

Roger claims this is a simple concept, but Mantra, Auzgirl and you Skip prove some things are too simple even for the very simple.

[Rainbow Moonlight]

How do you think you would feel if she had had the child? We tend to make the best adjustments we can to the situations we are placed in. hers was to abort the foetus. Yours was to accept that, despite your own feelings- very generous and noble of you- but it does not make her decision right. Would you have brought up the child on you own if she didn't want it?

What?

There is nothing generous or noble about it, it was her body not mine, what could I do? kidnap her and lock her in a room for nine months until she'd had it, is that what you suggest? I had no choice but to accept her decision, do you understand it yet? it was her body.

Would I have bought up the child on my own as she didn't want it?

What?, do you think a woman should carry a baby for nine months even if she didn't want it , just so she could hand it over to the father?

How bout you answer some questions?

If you were raped by your father would you keep the baby?

How bout pack raped by thirty blokes?
How bout you had a one night stand, fell pregnant but had too good a job to let babys get in the way?

I do think it is nice of you to think well of the woman who arranged for the death of the child you wanted. I see you had no choice but to accept her decision as this is the way our laws on this issue work, but I certainly don't see that you had no right to a say in the matter. It was your child. Her body- yes. But the child was both of yours.

And yes, I think a woman should carry a baby for 9 months even if she doesn't want it, just so she can hand it over to the father or grandparent or complete stranger who has been assessed by an adoption agency as suitable, who does want it.

If you were raped by your father would you keep the baby?

very likely.

How bout pack raped by thirty blokes?
very likely

How bout you had a one night stand, fell pregnant but had too good a job to let babys get in the way?

I wouldn't have a one night stand, never have. And i can not imagine it ever being justifiable to claim a baby should be killed because it would get in the way of a good job.

The baby is not at fault in any of these instances- it does not deserve to die.

I think abortion is more legitimate if the baby will be born only to suffer in pain or to live in a vegetable like state without awareness of the world or if having the baby would actually put the mother's own health and life at risk.

[mantra.]

So no man can talk about the morality of a woman killing a life within her?

He's welcome to give his opinion as long as he leaves out the moral judgement. Until a man has the ability fall pregnant - he hasn't got a clue what he's talking about.

Only a woman can discuss this issue of life and death and how a society respects life, the seriousness with which a society will decide to take life? Under that logic no person who has never been to war can protest any war or discuss the just nature of any war.

Right and wrong.

Both premises are ridiculous, when a society decides it is legal to kill it makes a decision on behalf of the entire polity of the nation, it says we believe this killing is just.

You're not making any sense.

Sorry, I don’t agree killing should be as easy as clipping a toenail.

Who said it was?

As to the various conditions of abortion, I have grown tolerant to thick people over the years on PA; indeed I enjoy their dense receptivity, how simple concepts elude them like a Hong Kong drug dealer trying to find Nirvana.

Oh of course - you being so intelligent, you have to exercise a great deal of tolerance. I wonder why you even bother with us simpletons oh wise one.

But I am tolerant and kind so I will repeat, once again, yes again, I do not oppose all abortion, indeed support the current law on the subject, I simply do not believe we should degrade the definition of life and our own humanity by pretending it is not killing.

Of course not - you are very kind Frogen and it's good that you don't oppose all abortion, because if you were in government and abortion was made illegal again - we might find women desperate enough to resort to the use of coathangers. Can you imagine what that would do to our health bill?

That you three assume any serious examination of that form of killing is automatically opposition to that killing reveals a reflexive defense of that killing, that you have not seriously though of it at all, made no reasoned arrival to it’s just nature.

Roger claims this is a simple concept, but Mantra, Auzgirl and you Skip prove some things are too simple even for the very simple.

[JW Frogen]

So a man can think about women killing unborn children but his morality must never enter the question of killing? (Can a civilian question the morality of a warrior's killing?)

Why would we think about morality when we decide to kill? I mean really now!

I think you are unwittingly making my argument for me.

I am for the current abortion laws because they work, and because, as I have said time and time, and time, and yes, time, again, I believe there is such a thing as justified killing, in abortion and war, (though not all war or abortions are justified killing).

What disturbs me is how you, and more importantly the pro-choice movement define life away to make killing oh so ever easy, and how you want special rules applied for your form of killing, society must not apply morals to it, must not think about it, and above all, must never think of the life killed.

How dare we want to think about the life we killed!

How dare we!

And more importantly, why won't you dare to?

[Aussie]

I am now eating pop corn!

No Aussie..he has been called on to back up his bullshit now..shows over.

Nope.....you do not know JW Frogen. The 'show' is never over.

[JW Frogen]

I am now eating pop corn!

No Aussie..he has been called on to back up his bullshit now..shows over.

Nope.....you do not know JW Frogen. The 'show' is never over.

I am the gift that keeps on giving.

Because it keeps getting returned.

[mantra.]

What disturbs me is how you, and more importantly the pro-choice movement define life away to make killing oh so ever easy, and how you want special rules applied for your form of killing, society must not apply morals to it, must not think about it, and above all, must never think of the life killed.

You've got a bad habit of twisting people's words to suit your argument. Society obviously does apply morals to it and so would most of the women who undergo abortion. But you as a male who is so used to killing with a gun (as easy as clipping a toenail) has no right to sit in moral judgement of any woman who might find herself faced with the moral dilemma of abortion.

How dare we want to think about the life we killed!

How dare we!

Yes - how dare you accuse others of being in favour of murder - when you have murdered yourself, but under a different guise, one that you neverendingly justify. How about you start thinking of your past actions in the killing fields before you pass judgement on others?

[JW Frogen]

I don’t get your point about society and killing?

Do you or do you not think all of society has a right to debate the killing it makes legal or not? Or can only the killers debate it, as was your position when you argued men can make no moral judgment on the issue.

Murder?

Once again, let me repeat myself, AGAIN (Forrest Gump would feel like Newton or Darwin on this forum), there is a difference between murder and killing.

Murder is killing the society writ large has decided is not justified, killing is killing a life; a society might find it justified.

But no decent society would pretend it is not killing, as you do.

Only serial criminals and war criminals do that.

You are not keeping very good company Ms. Mantra.

[vanessa~]

Mantra could have manifold trauma which explains her anger..men look small to her now she has an enlarged one.