Should little boys be allowed to become Brownies?

[mantra]

It seems the US is leading the way in allowing transgender boys to join the Girl Scouts - their equivalent of our Brownies (Girl Guides). He's a brave little boy, although girls are basically kind and he would probably be accepted moreso than in the Boy Scouts.

It's a bit ridiculous that we've kept the Boy Scouts and Girl Guides separated for so many decades; after all women have never been restricted from joining the ADF, but segregation and sexism still exists in Australia at a time when it should be waning.

I watched a neighbour's boy who preferred all things feminine grow up being relentlessly ostracised by his peers for wanting to join in girls' games, ballet classes and anything that enabled him to wear pink and pretend he was a girl. There wasn't an organised girl group available that allowed this boy to join as an equal. The boys hated him, but the girls were tolerant - yet he had to grow up excluded from mainstream activity because of outdated policies.

It's about time we got rid of all organisations that are gender specific. Obviously there are far more transgenders around now than decades ago when many of these organisations were created.

A SEVEN-YEAR-OLD Colorado boy's desire to join the Girl Scouts -- and the organisation's reversal of his initial rejection -- has put a spotlight on the Scouts' little-known policy of supporting transgender kids, FOX News reported today.

The story of little Bobby Montoya came to light earlier this week, when his mother told a Denver TV station that Bobby's request to join his older sister in the venerable all-girl organisation was denied. Felisha Archuleta says Bobby dresses in girls' clothes and likes girls' toys.

Ms Archuleta told KUSA-TV that a troop leader said "'It doesn't matter how he looks. He has boy parts, and he can't be in Girl Scouts. Girl Scouts don't allow that [and] I don't want to be in trouble by parents or my supervisor.'"

But the local troop leader was apparently unaware of current policies within the organisation.

The Girl Scouts of Colorado released a statement this week stating that they are an "inclusive organisation" and that little Bobby will be allowed to join if he wants to.

"We accept all girls in kindergarten through 12th grade as members. If a child identifies as a girl and the child's family presents her as a girl, Girl Scouts of Colorado welcomes her as a Girl Scout," according to the statement.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/b ... 6180155319

[Neferti]

How would a 7 year old boy know he is "transgender"? He is a little boy. If he wants to play with Barbie Dolls, do ballet, so what? Does it mean he will "turn into" a poofter? I doubt it.

Little girls who prefer playing with trucks in the sandbox don't necessarily become Wharfie type Lesbians, either.

Why don't we let little kids be little kids.

[annielaurie]

Why don't we let little kids be little kids.

I couldn't agree more. Things are getting worrisome up here in the USA. Here is an article I found tonight, this is happening is right here in the California town were I live ..

Dresses, bras turn sad Thomas into happy Tammy

by AAP October 01, 2011 12:00AM

A boy who began the process of changing sex at age eight has told how he always knew he was meant to be a girl. Thomas Lobel, who calls himself Tammy, is undergoing controversial hormone-blocking treatment in Berkeley, California, to stop him going through puberty as a boy.

His lesbian mothers, who adopted him aged two, said they had been criticised by friends and family, but insisted they had not forced their son to become a girl. Debra Lobel and Pauline Moreno said one of the first things Thomas told them when he learnt sign language at three, because of a speech impediment, was, "I am a girl."

Tammy, now 11, wears dresses and effectively lives as a girl. Ms Moreno and Ms Lobel said their son, who they claimed was depressed at a younger age and threatened to chop off his penis, was now much happier.

The couple were married in 1990 by a rabbi, according to Ms Moreno's Facebook page, and have two older sons and grandchildren. Ms Moreno said Thomas was shy and unhappy as a boy compared with his older, outgoing, athletic brothers.

He liked to read Wonder Woman comic books and play with dolls, and shunned baseball hats, preferring rhinestone hair accessories. At seven, after Thomas threatened genital self-mutilation, therapists and psychiatrists diagnosed him with gender identity disorder. A year later, his mothers allowed him to start the transition to becoming female by letting him wear bras and dresses.

"As soon as we let him put on a dress, his personality changed from a very sad kid who sat still, didn't do much of anything, to a very happy little girl who was thrilled to be alive," Ms Moreno told CNN.

This year Thomas started taking hormone-blocking drugs to postpone development of broad shoulders, deep voice and facial hair associated with puberty.

The diagnosis has been hard for Ms Moreno and Ms Lobel to accept, but they insisted their sexuality had nothing to do with it.

Ms Moreno said people had thought: "We're pushing her to do this. I'm a lesbian. My partner is a lesbian. That suddenly falls into the fold, 'Oh, you want her to be part of the lifestyle you guys live'."

The mothers said the hormone treatment would give Thomas time to decide whether to make the full transition to a female or go through puberty as a boy.

If he stopped taking the drugs, he would undergo male puberty at a later stage but his future fertility would not be affected.

To become an adult female, he could take female hormones, which would raise his voice, grow breasts and develop other feminine physical characteristics.

Ms Moreno and Ms Lobel have been married since 1990, when they were joined in a commitment ceremony by their rabbi.

San Francisco, right by Berkeley, is one of four cities in the United States with a hospital that has a program for transgender children. The University of California San Francisco is home to the Center of Excellence for Transgender Health. Children are seen at length by mental health professionals and then treated by pediatric endocrinologists.

Others cities with youth programs are Boston, Seattle and Los Angeles ..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/world/ ... 6154614814

[Neferti]

Sad is all I can say, Annie. Perhaps parents with hangups?

[mantra]

Yes I agree it's very sad. You have to wonder whether the little boy was seeking approval from his "mothers".

Boys do change a lot as they mature. That little neighbour's boy who loved pink and had everyone convinced he was gay, including his mother ended up a straight diesel mechanic with a long term girlfriend.

There is so much controversy about gay parents. These days I only know one gay mother with a beautiful teenaged son, who is already showing homosexual tendencies. Genetic or acquired - who knows?

[annielaurie]

Yes, apparently the parents are a lesbian couple. They live right here in Berkeley, my town. I don't know them.

Frankly I am just shocked at this story, it has gone too far. How can a boy of eight know what he wants? And what about the legalities of the hormone therapy for a minor?

[mantra]

I thought children had to wait until they were 16 even in the States, although I remember a few years ago there was a boy of 14 who got special permission for a sex change. No doubt the laws are changing, but someone in a powerful place needs to lay some strict guidelines about interfering with the gender of a child under a reasonable age.

This little boy might very well be heterosexual, but hasn't had a father figure to guide him.

[Super Nova]

No. What is the world coming to.

Little boys should not become brownies.

Little girls do much better in an all girl environment.
Litle boys do much better in a mixed sex environment.

God, this is just rubbish. I was in scouts and however... now I think about it.... I would loved to have been in the Girl Guides.......

[Neferti]

I thought children had to wait until they were 16 even in the States, although I remember a few years ago there was a boy of 14 who got special permission for a sex change. No doubt the laws are changing, but someone in a powerful place needs to lay some strict guidelines about interfering with the gender of a child under a reasonable age.

This little boy might very well be heterosexual, but hasn't had a father figure to guide him.

NOBODY has the right to change their sex via surgery just because they feel like it. Especially not children with parent's saying it is OK nonsense.

It has nothing to with "father figures" Mantra. It has to do with females "not affording the pill" and Governments rewarding them to have babies that they don't want to have.

I actually hope that somebody blows up the World and those who survive can begin again.

[mantra]

I'm not sure if it's got much to do with not affording the pill Neferti. Lesbian mothers, and gay fathers too, want to have children the same as the rest of us.