Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At

[JW Frogen]

Most people rationalise unpleasant decisions so they can go on living. This would apply to a woman pressured into having an abortion for some shoddy, selfish reason by her partner or ex partner.

So do soldiers.

Happy now?

Most soldiers do not pretend it is not a life, though as I explained with my SS point some do. I knew of Serb paramilitary goons who were sure by killing Bosnian Muslims they were not killing a life, or at least a human in the same sense that they considered Serbs human.

So I would put the SS soldier and the Bosnian war criminal in the same mindset (if perhaps not same legal sense) of the woman who kills her unborn life and pretends it is not a life simply to make killing easy.

I would place the soldier who kills for the greater good (to liberate Auswhitz for instance) but admits that German life he killed was a life along side the woman who kills her unborn life and admits she was killing for her own greater good.

At least concerning the general principal.

[Jovial Monk]

oh BULLSHIT! present similar cases!

That of a soldier "liberating Auschwitz" that was done by 10,000 soldiers out of the millions fighting on both sides in all theatres, NOT a real comparison!

Come on Froges, some real examples please!

What of a soldier killed by friendly fire?

[JW Frogen]

oh BULLSHIT! present similar cases!

That of a soldier "liberating Auschwitz" that was done by 10,000 soldiers out of the millions fighting on both sides in all theatres, NOT a real comparison!

Come on Froges, some real examples please!

What of a soldier killed by friendly fire?

Liberating Auschwitz was done by hundreds of thousands of soldiers all individually killing other hundreds of thousands of other individual lives.

Is your argument that it is not taking life for the greater good if it is done en-mass? Each individual sodlier could have died and knew they were taking individual lives, even if they were taking many at one time.

I have never heard any soldier who accidently killed an allied soldier state he did not kill a life. If he did, then he would be no more correct or cold in relation to respecting life than the woman who aborts a life and claims it is not a life.

[Jovial Monk]

No, my argument is that you chose a loaded sample!

Anyway in battle you rarely see the people you are fighting and adrenalin and fear take over, so the soldiers do NOT think about killing!

So, you want women who have an abortion to realise they kill while excusing soldiers.

[JW Frogen]

It depends on the sort of war and assignment whether one sees who they kill, but must soldiers see the results of their killing and know it is killing, acknowledge it is killing regardless of whether it is urban warfare and see who they are killing (as in most Iraq fighting) or from the air. Soldiers think about killing and being killed, before, during and after battle, most do not rationalise that they are not killing a life.

Women who abort do not see the life they kill but this is a moot point in both cases.

I am not excusing one or the other, it is the context and motive of the killing that justifies it, but if like the woman must claim she is not killing at all to kill, then certainly a rational mind must question the motive and justification for her killing.

[JW Frogen]

Though this does bring up another point, women who kill through abortion have that life within them, it is part of them, where as the soldier is killing a stranger.

So is the women's killing even more immoral? (If one is to condem all killing in war, or all killing. I do not.) For she is literally killing a possible family member, a blood tie? Is that not a greater betrayal of the sacred principal of life if we are going to condem killing writ large?

Is not the pacifist unwittingly laying an even greater charge against the person who kills by abortion?

[Auzgurl]

Claim Life Does Not Begin At
by Jovial Monk on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:24 pm

No, my argument is that you chose a loaded sample!

Anyway in battle you rarely see the people you are fighting and adrenalin and fear take over, so the soldiers do NOT think about killing!



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Report this postReply with quote Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At
by JW Frogen on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:37 pm

It depends on the sort of war and assignment whether one sees who they kill, but must soldiers see the results of their killing and know it is killing, acknowledge it is killing regardless of whether it is urban warfare and see who they are killing (as in most Iraq fighting) or from the air. Soldiers think about killing and being killed, before, during and after battle, most do not rationalise that they are not killing a life.

Women who abort do not see the life they kill but this is a moot point in both cases.

I am not excusing one or the other, it is the context and motive of the killing that justifies it, but if like the woman must claim she is not killing at all to kill, then certainly a rational mind must question the motive and justification for her killing.
Last edited by JW Frogen on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:43 pm, edited 1 time in total. JW Frogen

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Report this postReply with quote Re: Do Women Who Have Killed, Claim Life Does Not Begin At
by JW Frogen on Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:42 pm

Though this does bring up another point, women who kill through abortion have that life within them, it is part of them, where as the soldier is killing a stranger.

So is the women's killing even more immoral? (If one is to condem all killing in war, or all killing. I do not.) For she is literally killing a possible family member, a blood tie? Is that not a greater betrayal of the sacred principal of life if we are going to condem killing writ large?

Is not the pacifist unwittingly laying an even greater charge against the person who kills by abortion?JW Frogen

You lose Frogen..pure and simple back to the US economy wiv ye.

[Jovial Monk]

In a civil war brother can kill brother, fathers can kill sons all on the field of battle. That is nearly as loaded an example as your 'soldiers liberating Auschwitz'

Personally, I bet bomber pilots try not to think about the death and destruction they visit on 'enemy' people.

[JW Frogen]

Civil war would be a good point (though the odds of a father killing a brother or son are extreamly rare, if not impossible, and perhaps if the two should happen upon each other they would not kill each other at all), where as every women who kills by abortion kills her own relative, so who is using loaded examples?

Still the general concept seems to allude you, which is how one personally approaches their killing, do they dimish the very concept of life in order to kill, as many women do when they pretend abortion is not killing (and few soldiers do), is the need to pretend it is not a life a hint that they themselves do not believe their killing is just?

[JW Frogen]

Personally, I bet bomber pilots try not to think about the death and destruction they visit on 'enemy' people.

Most know, indeed as most in the democratic world are Uni educated they know all too well that they are killing writ large and the detailed effects.

Still, any pilot who says they were not killing life when they bombed the enemy would be in the same denile, suffering from the same lack of conviction as to the just nature of their killing as the woman who kills by abortion and pretends it is not a life.