Iraq Holds the elections this forum opposed...again.

[TomB]

Iraq has had larger voter turn outs than most non-mandatory voting democracies

If you were to re-phrase that as "most non-mandatory voting democracies between Jordan and Iran" you'd be correct. Otherwise nup.

A right you enjoy (or not) but would have denied to them as the little brown people can not have what we have, can they now?

Ah yes first we play the denigration card. (You do know that we live in Australia and that Aboriginals can vote here don't you?)

Then we play the you are a coward card because you've never fought for democracy, which is of course a complete straw man argument.

Look, here it comes.

Even though they have risked far more for such freedom than you ever will Tom.

Aah, as predicted.

[JW Frogen]

No Tom, I mean most consensual democracies anywhere.

The Iraqi people have earned their right to vote in a heroic fashion that turns your dismissal into a form of obscenity.

As for Aboriginals, glad to see you approve of their right to vote even if you would not have lifted one finger for Iraqis.

Baby steps, baby steps.

[Oliver Nickezoff]

Stickypaper. Thats what you once called Iraq isn't it frogen.

[Rainbow Moonlight]

I was very pleased that these elections , involving local nominations and candidates, have been held and held peacefully. A good sign for Iraq and also for the US. I was only calling for such elections the week the US declared victory. So yeah, long running opposition "Frogen".

[Pastafarian]

The other difference Tom is you've never lied about your military service as Frogen consistently does.

[boxy]

Stickypaper. Thats what you once called Iraq isn't it frogen.

I remember that one... it was when 9/11 and terrorism was fresh in everyone's mind, and along with the OMGWMD's, it was the excuse of the day, a reason to invade Iraq, in order to draw the extremists from all over the Middle East into direct battle with the Western military (rather than hit and run terrorism).

Using the Iraq, and the little brown people that Frogen cares so much about, as stalking horses.

Frogen's excuse de jour changes with the political wind... all he knows for certain is that throwing missiles and cannon fodder is a guud thang.

[TomB]

No Tom, I mean most consensual democracies anywhere.

I know what you mean and you're still wrong. Perhaps you better check the facts before pulling that one out again.

The Iraqi people have earned their right to vote in a heroic fashion that turns your dismissal into a form of obscenity.

The Iraqi's haven't earnt the right so much as had it thrust upon them by an occupying foreign force. Were they given the choice of not opting for democracy? Of course they weren't, where's the democracy in that?

[JW Frogen]

It has become a well worn pattern, almost a rite of nature, that those who opposed this war and even worse are indifferent to Iraqi democracy (if not hostile to the idea that the sand people can enjoy the very same rights we do) can only hold one idea in their mind at one time.

So the war is all about oil, or WMD lies, or Halliburton, but never more than one thing, let alone about the convergence of strategic threat, reality, economic necessity and idealism (idealism left the lexicon of the pacifist Left long ago, the ideal being subsumed into the ego) all at the same time.

Yes, we obtained strategic benefit by moving Al Qaeda from killing civilians on Western air liners to confronting a well equipped army that they have not been able to really fight at all, and yes there is strategic and ideological benefit in watching the Sunni turn on Al Qaeda because Al Qeada killed far more fellow Muslim civilians than they ever attempted to kill US solders, the latter being able to kill back.

And yes oil is important for reasons any adult would not need an explanation for.

And yes, democracy was the end game of the war, articulated by Bush before the war and every step of the way implemented at the first possible time. Democracy being the long term solution to an Isamo Fascist terror that it antithetical to the notion and claims that our support for Islamic, pro Western dictators is a motive for their slaughter.

Their claim has less force when confronted by an Iraqi democracy that chucked them out of the country.

But I think the most obscene thing I find about the PA crowd in relation to Iraq is not only your inability to listen to Iraqis risking their lives to have democracy, or type on word of support for their democracy, or believe they can even have democracy, no what is more obscene is the fact Iraqis never enter your equation at all, it is all about Bush and your personal opposition to Bush.

Or vauge and childish notions of what peace is born from watching too much Elmo or the Wiggles and never having to have lifted one finger for the peace your life has known.

It is all about your egos and the need to say the word peace without even attempting to understand the pre-conditions of peace.

This is how you can believe life under Saddam was peaceful.

It is all about you.

Iraqis need not apply.

[JW Frogen]

The Iraqi's haven't earnt the right so much as had it thrust upon them by an occupying foreign force. Were they given the choice of not opting for democracy? Of course they weren't, where's the democracy in that?

They were given a choice, they had consensual voting (unlike Australia) and had they boycotted such voting en-mass as the insurgents threaten their lives to do the US occupation would have become untenable, they did not, they risked their lives to vote.

It is almost incomprehensible to the PA left that any Iraqi would want to determine their own future democratically, as we do.

If not for the fact that most of the PA Left's political philosophy is predicated on a sense of personal impotence in the face of the responsibility of freedom I would be forced to conclude you racists.

[JW Frogen]

The other difference Tom is you've never lied about your military service as Frogen consistently does.

Really?

Such as?