I have to agree, I'm afraid you're right ..Outlaw Yogi wrote:Honestly, I think colonising habitable planets when found and reached isn't likely to be achieved this millenium, and colonising planets without a breathable atmosphere will remain fantasy forever.
Do we need to increase the race for Mars
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It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. Random guest posting.
It's such a fine line between stupid and clever. Random guest posting.
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annielaurie
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Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
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HIGHERBEAM
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:51 pm
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
http://www.marsroverblog.com/discuss-13 ... e-air.html
IT IS PHYSICLY POSSIBLE.
think about it.
Lets say you build a dome, and you take it to mars and drill it so its a permanent base ( regardless of how much it costs to put a huge dome on mars , im talking physicly not about the market and budget).
In that dome, you planted trees( for arguments sake, 20 of them), and now they are mature bacause you planted them 100 years ago, and they are in exelent condition. all the treees would have a 30 metre(or however much they need to support roots) soil elevation to supprt their roots.
the trees will feel like on earth and there is matenince with humans on board, watering them, and keeping them warm with earth like tempatures and so on.
you could ask now, whats the point of doing this , its only like building a greenhouse on mars - and mars' atmosphere is not getting any oxagen, because the trees are still in the dome.
well, we all know that trees take out the C (carbon) in CO2, (carbon dioxide) , to make oxagen- O2.
MARS' ATMOSPHERE IS MADE OF 95.32% CARBON DIAOXIDE
JUST 0.13% is breathable oxagen - well, not breathable hence humans need at least 21% of oxagen to breath ( 21% of the earths atmosphere is made up of oxagen, and clearly, life IS possible.
If you know how a submarine works, they have special pressurised air tanks which , when desending underwater, expell an exact % of oxagen and fill it up with water, thus "drowning" or going underwater ( due to weighing the submarine down , ovbiosly water weighs more than air does) .
If they want to go back to sea level, or rise to the surface, they pressurize the tanks (that are now filled with water) to expell the water back into the sea, and thus, the only thing that will replace the water is the air from inside the sumbarine. and when the submarine has less water, its lighter, and with more air, it begins to rise to the surface.
you may be thinking: "why is this guy talking to me about submarines? i want to know about life on mars" ,
but it is almost the exact same method of expelling air into MARS' ATMOSPHERE.
for example:
the dome holds 100%oxagen and 0%carbon dioxide.
lets you have a pressurized nozzle at one end of the dome, that sucks in (very accuratly and exact ammount, like a submarine),of carbon dioxide from mars' atmosphere. if the nozzle sucks in 10% of carbon dioxide, then the dome consists of 10% carbon, while, no oxagen left during the intake of carbon dioxide, so it would also consist of 100% oxagen.
so 100% oxagen in the dome, and 10% carbon dioxide. that makes for a grand total of 110% of gases in the dome. ( and yes it can go over 100%, think of a balloon, you can fill it to 150% of its original size) ( but this dome is not construscted of ballon plastic ovbiosly, just that its more like a car tire where its inflated but you can still put that extra 10% or air into it, to make it 110%)
with the carbon dioxide in the dome, the trees quickly begin the prosess of photosynthasis, taking away the C in CO2 and there fore producing OXAGEN!
at first, there would be, 9% of carbon didoxide in the dome, and 101% of oxagen. ( that 1% of carbon dioxide got made into oxagen)
the next day, the dome would hold 6% of carbon dioxide, 104% of oxagen. Do you see where im getting at!?
ALL THE TIME its 110% in total gases, just in different FORMS. and when theres 1% of that carbon dioxide left, there will be 109% oxagen!
after all 10% of the carbon dioxide turns into oxagen, there is 110% oxagen in the dome!
110% OXAGEN!!!
now your thinking : " he just explain photosynthasis to me, and i didnt need that either."
BUT. IF YOU TAKE 10% OF THE OXAGEN IN THE DOME, AND EXPELL IT THROUGH ANOTHER NOZZLE AT THE OPPOSISE END OF THE DOME, MARS' AT MOSPHERE HAD A TINY BIT MORE OXAGEN IN ITS ATMOSPHERE!!
it might be a small amount, actually, really relly tiny amount of oxagen that is put into mars' atmosphere, but if you have patience, (and this may go on for generations), the oxagen level is mar's atmosphere keeps rising and there is more and more and more of oxagen in it.
the dome then has 100% (not 110%) oxagen concentration, and the cycle continues, until mars' atmosphere is filled with at least 21% of oxagen ( like earth) for breathable air! BUT. we'd probably need Close to 100% ( not 21%) of oxagen in its atmosphere because keep in mind earth's amosphere in NOT 21% oxagen 79 % carbon dioxide, but rather mostly composted of helium and nitrogen, THAN oxagen (at 21%)
i know that this might seem "impossible" and i know that no one has or ever will have the bugdet to invest this, and create this dome, but im talking physicly, not on a money scale.
just think about it... we can even create not just 1 dome, but 10! or 100!! or even a city of these domes , and keep building these domes, because the more domes we have, the more quickly the carbon dioxide gets changed into oxagen, and thus expelling more oxagen into mars until it is breathable air for humans to live on.
yes i know this was long, but iv never really talked about this, jus probably because i just thought of it on my own, and i didnt know how possible is can actually seem!
IT IS PHYSICLY POSSIBLE.
think about it.
Lets say you build a dome, and you take it to mars and drill it so its a permanent base ( regardless of how much it costs to put a huge dome on mars , im talking physicly not about the market and budget).
In that dome, you planted trees( for arguments sake, 20 of them), and now they are mature bacause you planted them 100 years ago, and they are in exelent condition. all the treees would have a 30 metre(or however much they need to support roots) soil elevation to supprt their roots.
the trees will feel like on earth and there is matenince with humans on board, watering them, and keeping them warm with earth like tempatures and so on.
you could ask now, whats the point of doing this , its only like building a greenhouse on mars - and mars' atmosphere is not getting any oxagen, because the trees are still in the dome.
well, we all know that trees take out the C (carbon) in CO2, (carbon dioxide) , to make oxagen- O2.
MARS' ATMOSPHERE IS MADE OF 95.32% CARBON DIAOXIDE
JUST 0.13% is breathable oxagen - well, not breathable hence humans need at least 21% of oxagen to breath ( 21% of the earths atmosphere is made up of oxagen, and clearly, life IS possible.
If you know how a submarine works, they have special pressurised air tanks which , when desending underwater, expell an exact % of oxagen and fill it up with water, thus "drowning" or going underwater ( due to weighing the submarine down , ovbiosly water weighs more than air does) .
If they want to go back to sea level, or rise to the surface, they pressurize the tanks (that are now filled with water) to expell the water back into the sea, and thus, the only thing that will replace the water is the air from inside the sumbarine. and when the submarine has less water, its lighter, and with more air, it begins to rise to the surface.
you may be thinking: "why is this guy talking to me about submarines? i want to know about life on mars" ,
but it is almost the exact same method of expelling air into MARS' ATMOSPHERE.
for example:
the dome holds 100%oxagen and 0%carbon dioxide.
lets you have a pressurized nozzle at one end of the dome, that sucks in (very accuratly and exact ammount, like a submarine),of carbon dioxide from mars' atmosphere. if the nozzle sucks in 10% of carbon dioxide, then the dome consists of 10% carbon, while, no oxagen left during the intake of carbon dioxide, so it would also consist of 100% oxagen.
so 100% oxagen in the dome, and 10% carbon dioxide. that makes for a grand total of 110% of gases in the dome. ( and yes it can go over 100%, think of a balloon, you can fill it to 150% of its original size) ( but this dome is not construscted of ballon plastic ovbiosly, just that its more like a car tire where its inflated but you can still put that extra 10% or air into it, to make it 110%)
with the carbon dioxide in the dome, the trees quickly begin the prosess of photosynthasis, taking away the C in CO2 and there fore producing OXAGEN!
at first, there would be, 9% of carbon didoxide in the dome, and 101% of oxagen. ( that 1% of carbon dioxide got made into oxagen)
the next day, the dome would hold 6% of carbon dioxide, 104% of oxagen. Do you see where im getting at!?
ALL THE TIME its 110% in total gases, just in different FORMS. and when theres 1% of that carbon dioxide left, there will be 109% oxagen!
after all 10% of the carbon dioxide turns into oxagen, there is 110% oxagen in the dome!
110% OXAGEN!!!
now your thinking : " he just explain photosynthasis to me, and i didnt need that either."
BUT. IF YOU TAKE 10% OF THE OXAGEN IN THE DOME, AND EXPELL IT THROUGH ANOTHER NOZZLE AT THE OPPOSISE END OF THE DOME, MARS' AT MOSPHERE HAD A TINY BIT MORE OXAGEN IN ITS ATMOSPHERE!!
it might be a small amount, actually, really relly tiny amount of oxagen that is put into mars' atmosphere, but if you have patience, (and this may go on for generations), the oxagen level is mar's atmosphere keeps rising and there is more and more and more of oxagen in it.
the dome then has 100% (not 110%) oxagen concentration, and the cycle continues, until mars' atmosphere is filled with at least 21% of oxagen ( like earth) for breathable air! BUT. we'd probably need Close to 100% ( not 21%) of oxagen in its atmosphere because keep in mind earth's amosphere in NOT 21% oxagen 79 % carbon dioxide, but rather mostly composted of helium and nitrogen, THAN oxagen (at 21%)
i know that this might seem "impossible" and i know that no one has or ever will have the bugdet to invest this, and create this dome, but im talking physicly, not on a money scale.
just think about it... we can even create not just 1 dome, but 10! or 100!! or even a city of these domes , and keep building these domes, because the more domes we have, the more quickly the carbon dioxide gets changed into oxagen, and thus expelling more oxagen into mars until it is breathable air for humans to live on.
yes i know this was long, but iv never really talked about this, jus probably because i just thought of it on my own, and i didnt know how possible is can actually seem!
Will the Board survive under this Admin? Yes
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
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Outlaw Yogi
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
Righto,if the the average recorded temperature on Mars is -63° C (-81° F) with a maximum temperature of 20° C (68° F) and a minimum of -140° C (-220° F). ... that's comparable to Antarctica ... The week's coldest temperature was minus 92.4 degrees Fahrenheit (minus 69.1 degrees Celsius) at the Amundsen-Scott South Pole Station.
So aside from growing enough plant material to provide oxygen, what energy/power sources do you imagine you'd use to create a hospitable enough climate? ... noting that gardens are not a feature of Antarctic bases/research stations and the like.
Mars Introduction
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/mars.htm
Global Temperature Extremes
http://www.earthweek.com/2011/ew110506/ew110506z.html
So aside from growing enough plant material to provide oxygen, what energy/power sources do you imagine you'd use to create a hospitable enough climate? ... noting that gardens are not a feature of Antarctic bases/research stations and the like.
Mars Introduction
http://www.solarviews.com/eng/mars.htm
Global Temperature Extremes
http://www.earthweek.com/2011/ew110506/ew110506z.html
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HIGHERBEAM
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:51 pm
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
http://www.universetoday.com/53362/will ... -of-solar/
Will Bio Fuels Power Martian Colonies Instead Of Solar?
by Darnell Clayton on February 2, 2010
If I told you that your great, great, great grandkids would be building houses on that crimson world known as Mars, what would be the first thought to enter your head?
Rovers? Check! A comfy Martian house? Check! Power cutting rock tools? (for us guys) Double check! A bio fuel gas tank? Che–huh?!
You’re probably wondering “what power on Earth would motivate you to bring bio fuels to Mars?” The answer: a slightly altered cyanobacterium that may help us power future Martian rovers, homes–and yes–power tools with good ol’ biofuel.
The problem with settling Mars is this: despite its dazzling desert environment (if you consider frozen dry tundra’s dazzling), Mars is not the most ideal location when it comes to the energy department.
The red planet receives approximately half of the sunlight Earth does, which may dim a green geeks hope of a solar powered outpost offworld.
Worse, even if solar panels received 100% of the energy from the Sun, those big, bad global dust storms could make solar panels useless for weeks or months at a time.
The only thing “big red” has to offer future settlers is rust, dust and lots of CO2–the latter which can be converted into fuel thanks to our new best (microscopic) friend cyanobacterium.
Scientists have been studying this little creature and have found that with a “few” alterations, cyanobacterium can take CO2 (the gas that can easily kill you) and turn it into a biofuel called isobutanol.
Converted, isobutanol could help colonists power rovers, Martian settlements–and yes, even power tools (as cutting rocks with lasers is going to require lots of energy folks!) without the need to depend upon the Sun or an underground miniature nuke (which might be too expensive for small outposts).
Since bio fuels can’t openly burn in the carbon atmosphere, future rovers, houses and power tools will need to be altered to also carry oxygen as well (which we could extract from the ever abundant Martian ice).
By having an inexpensive and (hopefully) cheap fuel, establishing homes and traveling the Martian globe could become a reality without the heavy (and sometimes “helpful”) hand from governments and mega-corporations.
Image Credit: Paul Hudson via NASA
Sources: Alternative Energy News, Physorg.com
We have the means we just need the political will power to this and before it is too late I would like to have my feet up watching earth/solar eclipse.
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-F ... NewsNum=74
We could use a cold fusion reactor on mars,Ithink so
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news ... on-success
Will Bio Fuels Power Martian Colonies Instead Of Solar?
by Darnell Clayton on February 2, 2010
If I told you that your great, great, great grandkids would be building houses on that crimson world known as Mars, what would be the first thought to enter your head?
Rovers? Check! A comfy Martian house? Check! Power cutting rock tools? (for us guys) Double check! A bio fuel gas tank? Che–huh?!
You’re probably wondering “what power on Earth would motivate you to bring bio fuels to Mars?” The answer: a slightly altered cyanobacterium that may help us power future Martian rovers, homes–and yes–power tools with good ol’ biofuel.
The problem with settling Mars is this: despite its dazzling desert environment (if you consider frozen dry tundra’s dazzling), Mars is not the most ideal location when it comes to the energy department.
The red planet receives approximately half of the sunlight Earth does, which may dim a green geeks hope of a solar powered outpost offworld.
Worse, even if solar panels received 100% of the energy from the Sun, those big, bad global dust storms could make solar panels useless for weeks or months at a time.
The only thing “big red” has to offer future settlers is rust, dust and lots of CO2–the latter which can be converted into fuel thanks to our new best (microscopic) friend cyanobacterium.
Scientists have been studying this little creature and have found that with a “few” alterations, cyanobacterium can take CO2 (the gas that can easily kill you) and turn it into a biofuel called isobutanol.
Converted, isobutanol could help colonists power rovers, Martian settlements–and yes, even power tools (as cutting rocks with lasers is going to require lots of energy folks!) without the need to depend upon the Sun or an underground miniature nuke (which might be too expensive for small outposts).
Since bio fuels can’t openly burn in the carbon atmosphere, future rovers, houses and power tools will need to be altered to also carry oxygen as well (which we could extract from the ever abundant Martian ice).
By having an inexpensive and (hopefully) cheap fuel, establishing homes and traveling the Martian globe could become a reality without the heavy (and sometimes “helpful”) hand from governments and mega-corporations.
Image Credit: Paul Hudson via NASA
Sources: Alternative Energy News, Physorg.com
We have the means we just need the political will power to this and before it is too late I would like to have my feet up watching earth/solar eclipse.
http://www.technovelgy.com/ct/Science-F ... NewsNum=74
We could use a cold fusion reactor on mars,Ithink so
http://www.eetimes.com/electronics-news ... on-success
Will the Board survive under this Admin? Yes
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
-
Outlaw Yogi
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
Quite interesting, although water as ice is apparently only abundant at the polar extremities.
OK, so hypothetically humanity's landed biomymicry created glass or translucent ceramic garden bubbles on Mars, and others for iron eating cyanobacteria pools, and constructs a habitable colony.
So you program you robot harvesters to mine the surface (mainly iron and a bit of aluminium) to fuel your germ energy system ...
Fe-bearing minerals on the Martian surface
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/mdyar/ ... list.shtml
... and Martian life is good except the coffeee's crap and there's no dope ...
... but there's no gold, silver, copper or titanium, and lets face it a space travelling race would need to ditch its thick skinned aluminium craft prone to damage by specs of space junk with much stronger yet malleable titanium craft. As titanium dispels heat from friction instantly (handy during re-enrty) and pops back into shape after impact damage.
In mineral terms the most valuable thing on Mars are the semi precious gem stones - Garnet.
And as much of what is on Mars is in asteroids, while much of what is in asteroids is not on Mars, would it not be more practicle to blast asteroids and vacuum up the ore particles?
Anyway, if you can find something rare or valuable on Mars from the search below, which would make such a venture worth while, feel free to enlighten/illuminate me.
Mars Mineral Spectroscopy Database
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/search/index.h ... rch%2F#922
OK, so hypothetically humanity's landed biomymicry created glass or translucent ceramic garden bubbles on Mars, and others for iron eating cyanobacteria pools, and constructs a habitable colony.
So you program you robot harvesters to mine the surface (mainly iron and a bit of aluminium) to fuel your germ energy system ...
Fe-bearing minerals on the Martian surface
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/mdyar/ ... list.shtml
... and Martian life is good except the coffeee's crap and there's no dope ...
... but there's no gold, silver, copper or titanium, and lets face it a space travelling race would need to ditch its thick skinned aluminium craft prone to damage by specs of space junk with much stronger yet malleable titanium craft. As titanium dispels heat from friction instantly (handy during re-enrty) and pops back into shape after impact damage.
In mineral terms the most valuable thing on Mars are the semi precious gem stones - Garnet.
And as much of what is on Mars is in asteroids, while much of what is in asteroids is not on Mars, would it not be more practicle to blast asteroids and vacuum up the ore particles?
Anyway, if you can find something rare or valuable on Mars from the search below, which would make such a venture worth while, feel free to enlighten/illuminate me.
Mars Mineral Spectroscopy Database
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/search/index.h ... rch%2F#922
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Outlaw Yogi
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
Missed a bit ...
Possibly, hydrogen could easily be sourced from the ice, but unless Mars has nickel to mine the fuel would need to be flown in.HIGHERBEAM wrote: We could use a cold fusion reactor on mars,Ithink so
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HIGHERBEAM
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:51 pm
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
http://answers.yourdictionary.com/scien ... de-of.html
Yes we have nickel on mars as well as the core,numerous meteroites have now been found to contain nickel (mars rover),so we can use the nickel from the meteroites first then use the drills to find the core.Could we use solar wind sails to catch and filter the clouds of dust that mars has for collecting nickel and other minerals that we would need to sudtain a colony?The sails could be brought in by the craft coming in, they would be using them as a form of propulsion.
Yes we have nickel on mars as well as the core,numerous meteroites have now been found to contain nickel (mars rover),so we can use the nickel from the meteroites first then use the drills to find the core.Could we use solar wind sails to catch and filter the clouds of dust that mars has for collecting nickel and other minerals that we would need to sudtain a colony?The sails could be brought in by the craft coming in, they would be using them as a form of propulsion.
Will the Board survive under this Admin? Yes
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
-
Outlaw Yogi
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
Outlaw Yogi wrote:... but there's no gold, silver, copper or titanium,
Scrap that ... was looking for ilmenite and didn't consider perovskite, which Mars apparently does have, so there is titanium on Mars .. and as Mars did supposedly have a molten core at some stage (which is believed to have large quantities of nickel, so scrap fly fuel in for fusion reactor comment also), there could be plenty of valuables below the surface.There's plenty of basalt, an abundance of quartz and there's iron pyrite (sulfur+iron = fool's gold) so chances are there's gold and copper .... hmmm, should have kept my trap shut, turns out there's zinc on Mars, so with so many impact crators there's probably lead and silver too.
Current observations suggest Mars is still volcanic (implies gold, diamonds, ect), but to me that conflicts with the theory/belief that Mars has a cold solid core.
With the Japanese getting right into mechatronics and joining the space race, they look like the current favouritre to have their robots stake their flag pole in Martian soil 1st... we'll need the bots to confirm or debunk what we guess is there.
Fe-bearing minerals on the Martian surface
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/mdyar/ ... list.shtml
Mars Mineral Spectroscopy Database
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/search/index.h ... rch%2F#922
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HIGHERBEAM
- Posts: 481
- Joined: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:51 pm
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
http://www.physorg.com/news174031552.html
The general thinking is we could get to mars in 39 days with a plasma rocket,we could send robotic rockets with the advance equipment,then the first crew once all equipment has safely landed.We could in all probability have a mars settlement up and running in a year and 10-20 years start to terraform the harsh mars landscape.I see a few problems at first is to stop the solar winds taking anymore of the atmosphere.
The general thinking is we could get to mars in 39 days with a plasma rocket,we could send robotic rockets with the advance equipment,then the first crew once all equipment has safely landed.We could in all probability have a mars settlement up and running in a year and 10-20 years start to terraform the harsh mars landscape.I see a few problems at first is to stop the solar winds taking anymore of the atmosphere.
Will the Board survive under this Admin? Yes
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
Be not ashamed of mistakes and thus make them crimes.
Confucius
ut operor nos ban monachus
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Super Nova
- Posts: 11786
- Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2007 12:49 am
- Location: Overseas
Re: Do we need to increase the race for Mars
It would require a lot of energy to simulate the magnetosphere. maybe we could get the core of the planet heated up enough to have molten metal again. Changing the orbit of a moon may do it over time.
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