Is this man a guilty bigot or a law-abiding citizen?

[AiA in Atlanta]

Seems to me this man should have at least gotten a slap on the wrist for killing two men.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01texas.html

[freediver]

No. What he did is legal. Though I would suggest they change the law. You should only be allowed to kill someone if they are putting you or someone else at physical risk, not because they are escaping with your property.

[AiA in Atlanta]

No. What he did is legal. Though I would suggest they change the law. You should only be allowed to kill someone if they are putting you or someone else at physical risk, not because they are escaping with your property.

The fleeing criminals weren't fleeing with his property but were fleeing from the house next door ACROSS his property. Seems like Texas justice to me.

[IQSRLOW]

I bet the burglary stats drop in and around that neighbourhood for a while

He needs a medal.

[freediver]

AiA I don't think it makes any difference whose property he was stealing, just as it wouldn't make any difference whose life someone was threatening.

[boxy]

That site requires a log in... how about some summing up, rather than just links in opening posts?

Anyway, it depends on one thing... was anyone in real and present danger from the guy.

People don't get the death sentence for stealing, especially when it is the neighbor who is the executioner.

[AiA in Atlanta]

That site requires a log in... how about some summing up, rather than just links in opening posts?

Anyway, it depends on one thing... was anyone in real and present danger from the guy.

People don't get the death sentence for stealing, especially when it is the neighbor who is the executioner.

The whole thing was recorded on 911: Joe Horn is a frustrated, white conservative who let loose on two dark-skinned thieves in spite of the 911 dispatcher advising him to stay in the house and not shoot anybody.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qV3lcquHI6c

[freediver]

People don't get the death sentence for stealing, especially when it is the neighbor who is the executioner.

Read it and weep boxy. It raised questions of ethnic bias, but not about whether it is OK to kill people like that.



Grand Jury Clears Texan in the Killing of 2 Burglars

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01 ... ref=slogin

HOUSTON — A grand jury on Monday refused to indict a 62-year-old man who fatally shot two burglars last November as they fled his neighbor’s house.

In a case that raised questions of ethnic bias, self-defense and property rights, the jury rejected charges against the man, Joe Horn, who is white. Both victims were illegal immigrants from Colombia.

“Joe is not some wild cowboy,” Mr. Horn’s lawyer, Charles T. Lambright, said at a news conference on Monday. “He was put in a place where he didn’t have any other choice.”

But others reacted angrily to the decision. “There is not a snowflake’s chance in hell that an African-American man could do what Joe Horn did and get away with it,” said Quanell X, a local black activist. “The message that Harris County sent to the entire world is that Houston, Tex., is God’s city. There is no longer a need for the criminal justice system, police, judge or jury. You can be all of that on your own.”

Mr. Horn, a retired computer manager who testified before the grand jury, called 911 on Nov. 14, saying two men were burglarizing his neighbor’s house in Pasadena, a Houston suburb. He described the men as black.

“I’m not going to let them get away with it,” he told the emergency operator. “I’m going to shoot.” He added, “I’m going to kill them.”

The operator repeatedly told Mr. Horn not to shoot, and the police had just arrived at the scene when Mr. Horn fired three blasts of 00 buckshot from his 12-gauge, striking the men in their backs.

The men — Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 — ran short distances before collapsing and dying, leaving behind a tire iron used to break a window and a pillowcase holding jewelry and about $2,000 from the neighbors.

Many questions went unanswered, including the events that transpired before Mr. Horn told the operator, “I had no choice,” adding, “Man, they came running in my yard.”

The Texas Penal Code allows the use of deadly force if the “actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary.” Deadly force can also be used to protect property when “the other is fleeing immediately after committing burglary.”

One lawyer, while endorsing the grand jury’s decision, raised questions about the process.

“I wonder if Joe Horn were black if he would be free tonight or in the Harris County Jail,” said the lawyer, Joseph Gutheinz Jr., of the National Republican Lawyers Association. “It’s a sea of white faces that doesn’t look anything like the county,” Mr. Gutheinz said.

In a news release, District Attorney Kenneth Magidson of Harris County said the grand jury had “conducted a thorough review of the evidence and testimony” and noted that every case involving deadly force “stands or falls on its own particular facts.”

[AiA in Atlanta]

People don't get the death sentence for stealing, especially when it is the neighbor who is the executioner.

Read it and weep boxy. It raised questions of ethnic bias, but not about whether it is OK to kill people like that.



Grand Jury Clears Texan in the Killing of 2 Burglars

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/01/us/01 ... ref=slogin

HOUSTON — A grand jury on Monday refused to indict a 62-year-old man who fatally shot two burglars last November as they fled his neighbor’s house.

In a case that raised questions of ethnic bias, self-defense and property rights, the jury rejected charges against the man, Joe Horn, who is white. Both victims were illegal immigrants from Colombia.

“Joe is not some wild cowboy,” Mr. Horn’s lawyer, Charles T. Lambright, said at a news conference on Monday. “He was put in a place where he didn’t have any other choice.”

But others reacted angrily to the decision. “There is not a snowflake’s chance in hell that an African-American man could do what Joe Horn did and get away with it,” said Quanell X, a local black activist. “The message that Harris County sent to the entire world is that Houston, Tex., is God’s city. There is no longer a need for the criminal justice system, police, judge or jury. You can be all of that on your own.”

Mr. Horn, a retired computer manager who testified before the grand jury, called 911 on Nov. 14, saying two men were burglarizing his neighbor’s house in Pasadena, a Houston suburb. He described the men as black.

“I’m not going to let them get away with it,” he told the emergency operator. “I’m going to shoot.” He added, “I’m going to kill them.”

The operator repeatedly told Mr. Horn not to shoot, and the police had just arrived at the scene when Mr. Horn fired three blasts of 00 buckshot from his 12-gauge, striking the men in their backs.

The men — Hernando Riascos Torres, 38, and Diego Ortiz, 30 — ran short distances before collapsing and dying, leaving behind a tire iron used to break a window and a pillowcase holding jewelry and about $2,000 from the neighbors.

Many questions went unanswered, including the events that transpired before Mr. Horn told the operator, “I had no choice,” adding, “Man, they came running in my yard.”

The Texas Penal Code allows the use of deadly force if the “actor reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary.” Deadly force can also be used to protect property when “the other is fleeing immediately after committing burglary.”

One lawyer, while endorsing the grand jury’s decision, raised questions about the process.

“I wonder if Joe Horn were black if he would be free tonight or in the Harris County Jail,” said the lawyer, Joseph Gutheinz Jr., of the National Republican Lawyers Association. “It’s a sea of white faces that doesn’t look anything like the county,” Mr. Gutheinz said.

In a news release, District Attorney Kenneth Magidson of Harris County said the grand jury had “conducted a thorough review of the evidence and testimony” and noted that every case involving deadly force “stands or falls on its own particular facts.”

“Joe is not some wild cowboy,” Mr. Horn’s lawyer, Charles T. Lambright, said at a news conference on Monday. “He was put in a place where he didn’t have any other choice.”

The 911 recording link above clearly places him in his house looking out the window speaking to the dispatcher. I don't understand why he didn't have a choice as he could have stayed inside on the phone where it was safe.

[JW Frogen]

Read what the article claims is the law of Texas.

The man is innocent.

The Grand Jury did its job, decide on the law.

He seems innocent by law, if not morally.

But then I have dealt with a lot of violent situations, and the devil is in the details.

You have to be there.