Crime and Punishment

[Sappho]

This thread is about all kinds of crimes and the punishments or lack there of that those crimes attract.

Council staff have promised to keep a close eye on a nesting black swan and his egg after youths attacked and killed his partner.

Police said a group of youths threw an object at the mother swan in Queens Park, Moonee Ponds, causing a serious head wound before running off about 3.40pm (AEST) yesterday.

A witness nursed the female for 20 minutes but it died in their arms.

The RSCPA's Daniel Bode earlier said the attack was particularly "horrible" because the birds mated for life.

"Because swans mate for life the male is very distressed," he told ninemsn.

The swans were the only nesting pair in the park and mayor Sipek said they had been living there for about one year.

Witnesses told police four male and two female youths were responsible for the attack and have provided them with descriptions.

Constable Rob Hanger said police would view CCTV footage from a local railway station and shops to try to identify the offenders.

Deliberate acts of animal cruelty can be punishable by two years' jail or a $28,000 fine.

The attack has shocked visitors of the park and one patron even left a bouquet of flowers and a card near the swan's nest reading: "To mamma swan, thanks for all the wonderful memories."

Jail or a fine? What a stupid punishment for such behaviour. It teaches nothing. Rather, if jailed for the crime, it brings these nasty little teens into contact with nastier teens increasing their chances of becoming even nastier.

I say, let the punishment fit the crime, which in this instance would be to sentence the teens, when they are caught, to two years community service at the RSPCA caring for animals that have been abused or neglected. They need to see, feel and live the consequences of cruelty for which they have played a part. And it is not hard to actually do this... make funding to not for profits conditional... in this case conditional on their accepting those sentenced for cruelty to animals into a community service program as planned by Correctional Services in consultation with the RSPCA. All that the RSPCA would need to do is report to Correctional Services if they fail to attend, or fail to attend to their duties in a responsible manner... both of which, if unjustified, would result in the sentence being converted to incarceration.

[boxy]

I wonder if it was an unprovoked attack, or if the swan was being aggressive during the breeding season?

[mellie]

Military school... "long term"- no 3 month spells, think of it as Hogwarts from Harry Potter, only no Jelly Slugs, Blood Lollipops, Acid Pops and Sugar Quills...affirmative action is required to instill discipline into our youth, before we end up like America, ... the materialist Americanisation of our youth culture gives me shits.

We detain innocent orphans in adult detention centres seeking refuge, why not a few little bastards of our own who need to be re-educated.

Dead beat parents should be fined for leaving their delinquent children to their own devices.

[mellie]

Not Americas style Military schools for spoiled brats who's parents want some time out....or crappy summer-camp style Christian camps for busy parents with bored offspring.


I'm talking about placing a positive spin on private college style boarding schools, intense re-wiring to instill discipline and self respect.

They would be taught Latin, grammar, enjoy the very best excursions, learning environments and student support services, would hopefully frown back on their own hopeless parents with dismal disdain and become what their parents never could.

Most of these children who commit these types of offenses are in need of intense Harry Potter style early intervention ...(a second chance at life) and keep their selfish filthy drug addict parents away from them... they don't deserve their children's respect.

The signs are there when these kids are very little, our society chooses to ignore them. Even the more educated.

It's time to do something about inherited social disadvantage.

If we can send $500 mil to Indonesia for their kids schools, we have to ask ourselves, what are we doing for ours?

Who knows, we may even cultivate some geniuses among them... these kids who have neglectful parents deserve the very best we can give them... but it's too late once they have hit adolescence for this type of program, the older ones would be more suited to Military School.

Some parents just don't deserve to be parents.

Foster parents either for that matter.


Why the Harry Potter theme?

Because it needs to be positive and something these kids can look positively upon .... ie "Harry had it tough, but he turned his life around."

What would have Harry become if he were just a mere 'muggle'?

These kids lives require intense transformation, no nasty stigmata... name these schools like we would any self respecting private college, these kids get labeled and stigmatised enough.

You need a license to drive a car, a license to own a gun....but the most important job in the world, and any scum-bag low-life on a methadone program gets paid like a prostitute to do it...stop the baby bonuses, if people need these bonuses to put food in their kids mouths, then they shouldn't have them to begin with...nor should we be encouraging them to do so.
All it (the baby bonus) was, was a pre-electoral sweetener for mum and dad voters anyway...most of them bought plasma TV's.

Allow School nurses to confidentially prescribe R-U-4-86, it should be available over the chemist counter.

Most pro-lifers are privileged, how ironic.

Do pro-lifers care for life outside the womb?

[Rainbow Moonlight]

I like your suggestion Sappho. It would be a good option.

I think rapists, paedophiles and even murderers are too lightly sentenced in Australia.

i also don't think paedophiles should be released.

I also think there is something to the argument for the death penalty regarding the cost to the community of keeping offenders alive in jail for extended periods.

I also am unhappy that the consequences for criminals are almost never as bad as the consequences for their victims. I tend to think wilful violence and aggression should be punished in a similar manner to that in which it was carried out or that fits the crime. Would a man commit rape again if the penalty for raoing was to be raped by someone more powerful than him in the same aggressive manner he committed his crime, or to be castrated? If someone throws a child from a bridge to its death, would he be likely to do it again if he was thrown from something of equally comparative height (compared to his height) to his death as a consequence? The problem I can see with instituting these types of penalties is more that one may be unsure of the guilt of the perpetrator, but I am comfortable with the idea that aggression and violence could be dished out in kind if the offender's guilt was somehow known for certain.

[mellie]

We have policies being drafted for disadvantaged children by those who wouldn't have a clue about social disadvantage or even parenting.

Welfare needs to be more regulated.. a condition an individual accepts benefits is that like a business, they are to retain every single receipt should their number randomly come up for periodic auditing....this or issue them with a family debit card, which acts like a regular debit card, only they may only withdraw a certain percentage of it out as cash, this and must provide receipts for why they needed to withdraw cash. Monitoring the way welfare is spent electronically especially when it involves those caring for others children, disabled, is reasonable, i'm not talking about monitoring oldies on pensions who like a flutter down the RSL...i'm talking about those who receive benefits to take care of others should be expected to at least provide evidence that they are.

Welfare cheats are sapping the Christ out of our economy, many people get some sort of centrelink payment these days, the least we could do is make sure the money is being put towards what it's supposed to be... ie, not being pissed up the wall down the pub while the kids sit at home or in the beer garden hungry.

One other thing... Children should be banned from beer gardens, pubs, (RSL's are ok between certain family friendly hours, in the restaurant areas)... as a society we need to set the standard.


Why is it we see children playing on children's equipment in beer gardens late at night watching and listening to adults swill booze and punch on with each other until early hours of the morning?

Why are 6 7 and 8 year old children out skateboarding near St James Cathedral Sydney drinking alcohol until 3 am , smoking cigarettes in full view of the public ... no parents/police in sight, and noone thinks to ask why?

Or how even.

If I saw an 8 year old child out late at night, smoking , unsupervised, I would call the police...and stay within eye-view until the police arrived to ensure nothing happened to them until they got there.

I remember a time when adults would approach kids on the street and ask, "Little girl, are you ok, are you lost?"... even during the day if there wasn't a parent in sight.....these days, I reckon a 6 or 7 year old could sit on a bench at any railway station in Sydney, without being noticed for hours, or at all in some cases.

What happened to our values?


Why are our children in busy city streets invisible?

[mellie]

I like your suggestion Sappho. It would be a good option.

I think rapists, paedophiles and even murderers are too lightly sentenced in Australia.

i also don't think paedophiles should be released.

I also think there is something to the argument for the death penalty regarding the cost to the community of keeping offenders alive in jail for extended periods.

I also am unhappy that the consequences for criminals are almost never as bad as the consequences for their victims. I tend to think wilful violence and aggression should be punished in a similar manner to that in which it was carried out or that fits the crime. Would a man commit rape again if the penalty for raoing was to be raped by someone more powerful than him in the same aggressive manner he committed his crime, or to be castrated? If someone throws a child from a bridge to its death, would he be likely to do it again if he was thrown from something of equally comparative height (compared to his height) to his death as a consequence? The problem I can see with instituting these types of penalties is more that one may be unsure of the guilt of the perpetrator, but I am comfortable with the idea that aggression and violence could be dished out in kind if the offender's guilt was somehow known for certain.

Once a paedophile always a paedophile, they should never be released.

They don't rehabilitate, they should be quarantined. No second chances on this one...it's a particularly heinous socially destructive offense, so life in prison should mean exactly just that.... LIFE!

[Sappho]

I like your suggestion Sappho. It would be a good option.

That concept would also work for other crimes also. I see no problem for example in sentencing graffiti artists to community service with Metro transport or local councils, giving these little vandals the job of cleaning graffiti from the trains and private property. It teaches them the futility of their deeds... because when caught, they will be the ones removing the graffiti art. I also think that part of their community service should be served learning about art. We have so many unemployed art teachers and underemployed artist who would gladly work with these graffiti artists and teach them how to express themselves legally.

I'll come back to the rest a bit latter.

[Jovial Monk]

I totally despise politicians from both sides taking tough law and order stands to get elected: jail becomes school teaching them how to commit more serious crimes.

Community service is no go, they would be rowdy and disruptive, not willing to work etc—would need to be done like a bootcamp, or work on a farm (and they would earn wages) stuff like that.

No death penalty: killing is abhorrent and dehumanising whether done by the state or not.

Putting some effort in before a child becomes a juvenile deliquent would pay handsome dividends I would think.

[Sappho]

We have policies being drafted for disadvantaged children by those who wouldn't have a clue about social disadvantage or even parenting.

I don't believe that you need an understanding of disadvantage to deliver real and lasting deterants to deviant behaviour through our systems of punishment. What you need is a strong understanding of psychological conditioning applied humanly.

Disadvantage is not synonymous with criminality. You can be a law abiding poor person.

I get tired to criminals citing underlying factors for their petty crimes... "I stole the car because I am poor, my mother beat me, I didn't finish school, I can't get work, I was bullied, I'm addicted to drugs and heaps of other stuff your honour. So don't punish me cause life has punished me enough sir." None of those factors actually go towards an argument which claims they cannot see the difference between right and wrong. They know the difference and choose to be wrong regardless.

I swear, if I were a judge or magistrate hearing such excuses for bad behaviour... I would tell them that their sorry tale has just added a further year to their community sentence so that we can once and for all deal with those factors as well as the punishment for the crime. They would have lifestyle classes if they blame it on their lifestyle. They would have to return to education, if they are blaming it on their education. They would have to attend anger management classes, if they feel that abuse suffered is a justification for criminality. And so it goes...