europe starting to build solar thermal power stations

[IQS.RLOW]

Solar pv is a scam

It is inefficient, expensive and cannot deliver the horsepower needed to power homes let alone industry

You should know this

[mellie]

I disagree. Coal will be cheapest form of energy we have for a long long time

Then why do they need $9 billion or more in annual fuel subsidies?

Coal industry reckons it brings $18 billion into the country annually (exports), so it costs us $9 billion to make $9 billion.

Nothing is cheaper to install, maintain, and replace than PV solar, period.
Solar PV isn't restricted to grids either, sometimes its the only option (over diesel generators) for decentralised/local/isolated power systems.

Actually, unless the coal industry modifies its equipment to electric (powered by a coal plant it feeds), the cost of coal will rise with the price of diesel, making it less viable again.

Nothing is cheaper to install, maintain, and replace than PV solar, period.

- by an idiot who requires food stamps to survive on the dole

You fucking retard,

Solar PVC = $80,000 over a 20 year period

Coal = $20,000 over a 20 year period, (this and decreases as the family unit shrinks unlike solar which requires the ongoing $80,000 every 20 years unless you downsize to a self contained bed sitter during retirement, and even then, it's the continuity of the source of power you are paying for, thus will still set you back at minimum of $40,000 for a single in a tiny flat, compared to $5,000 (for a single) over 20 years as a single using coal as a energy source.

What the fuck is wrong with you, did you not take Math at school?

Can you afford $80,000 over a 20 year period, this and replace these panels for another $80,000 upon retirement?

The average individual will require at minimum of 3 replacements of PVC solar panels, and even then, it's only going to cover 85% at best of your power needs.

The problem is continuity, not quantity.

The Greens are proposing Green solar-loans, big mistake, because by the time the feel-goods figure out they have been screwed over, they will remain in-debt to their government... think of it as death-tax, because long after you're gone, your kids will be paying for your stupidity, one way or another...even if they have to hock their inheritance to re-pay your idiotic feel-good greeny solar-debt.


So, explain to us all how solar PVC is more affordable than coal power over a 20 year period.

Coal = $20,000 over a 20 year period

PVC= $80,000 over a 20 year period

The usage in units may drop considerably with solar feel-good PVC, however the conversion and ongoing replacement of PVC panels is where it gets you.


Can you afford $80,000 for an instillation/conversion 85% to solar at present, and how many people residing in rental properties will jump at the chance to convert someone else's house only to be turfed out after the fact in the event the property owner decides to sell.

Get real

[mellie]

But is sounded good at the time didn't it... prescribing to the church of climate Scientology.

Idiot....

Do you have any idea whatsoever what these PVC panels cost?

And did you know they need replacing every 20 years?

And did you know they only provide 85% of you're power, (at best)... meaning you are still if only partially dependent on coal should you make the conversion.



It's just not viable. Not for the middle or lower class anyway.

[mellie]

Solar pv is a scam

It is inefficient, expensive and cannot deliver the horsepower needed to power homes let alone industry

You should know this

You would think they'd have figured it out..apparently some didn't take maths at school it seems.

[mellie]

To prove a point, I'm going to call a solar company in the morning, this and get them to draft me a quote to convert our average sized household to solar, this and will ask them to state precisely what percentage of my power usage will these panels provide, do you suppose they will put this in writing, or do you think they will guestimate and tell me I may have to pay a little gap-payment for coal supplemented energy?

I can tell you now, it will be consistent with mine and others research findings, this has all been done before, re-others unfortunate experience of having been taken for a ride.

But to shove it in your face, I will get the quote, then scan it and upload it onto this forum.

If I do this, will you shut your pie-hole?

Will you finally get it?

[Outlaw Yogi]

Solar pv is a scam

It is inefficient, expensive and cannot deliver the horsepower needed to power homes let alone industry

You should know this

Sorry but I know too many people using it to support such a theory.
I mentioned quite recently that outsiders touring the properties around my own could be forgiven for thinking they were in Hippyville upon seeing all the PV panels and mini wind turbines. But untill recently most of us are ex military or ex outlaw clubbies. Of 12 properties along the road to my block, 2 are hooked upto mains power (only single phase available), and every body else has PV panels, mini wind turbines, and usually a diesel or petrol generator for back up, simply because the electricity companies quote ridiculous sums from $10K to $25K to hook upto the grid. Then they'd have to constantly buy electricity.
PV panels are getting cheaper, inverters have become very affordable, and replacing batteries ever 7 years is still cheaper than buying mains power.

[mellie]

Outlaw yoga, go buy a calculator, and learn some maths.


You are just impossible, either a liar or inept.

PVC solar power over 20 years =

$80,000
+
15% coal supplemented source of power $12,000

total = $92,000 for 20 years worth of household energy using PVC solar panels and 15% coal, PVC panels which have to be replaced every 20 years anyway, and doesn't even include maintenance.

verses...

$20,000 for 20 years worth of coal sourced energy, no hidden costs, the supply is continuous and reliable albeit over-priced thanks to our idiotic government selling off our power companies to foreign investors.



So..

PVC solar power 4 $92,000 over 20 years

-vrs-

Coal power 4 $20,000 over 20 years

It's not hard retard.

With unemployment and under-employment at record highs, who can afford their coal power-bills much less pull $80,000 grand from their ass to convert to 85% PVC solar?


Can you?



I sure as hell cant.

[Outlaw Yogi]

$80K hey?
Don't know anyone who's spent over $20K, and we're doin' just fine.
Make up any figures you like, we're still going to take the best deal we can get, and at the moment, that's Solar PV.

AFAIK poly vinyl chloride (PVC) is unrelated to photovoltaics, one's plastic, the other's silicone.

[mellie]

Or did you honestly expect the government to install these panels free of charge without syphoning this from tax-payers?

Get real....

Ask yourself, why haven't they already demanded department of housing properties be fitted with solar panels in sunny indigenous communities, surely their communities would be a national priority, would serve as a deserving pilot program?

My god, if we are flat out finding the funds to recover from a natural and periodic natural disaster, (despite Anna Blighs false rise to stardom at the tax-payers expense)...then how do you suppose we'd be capable of subsidising households PVC panels which themselves, not unlike their idiotic insulation bats cause 'spontaneous' household fires?

And what about already harmful dioxin levels, the pollutant our government doesn't wish to discuss?

Even during small house fires considerable amounts of dioxin can form because PVC is present in interior furnishings and products such as household furniture as it is... imagine the effects on the environment should every house be lacquered with the stuff in it's toxic purest form?




PVC: A major environmental health disaster


PVC is the worst plastic from an environmental health perspective, posing major hazards in its manufacture, product life and disposal.
Toxic Manufacturing By-products: Dioxin (the most potent carcinogen known to science), hydrochloric
acid and vinyl chloride are unavoidably created in production of PVC and can cause severe health problems to
workers, fence-line communities and ultimately to us all.

• Cancer
• Endometriosis
• Neurological damage
• Immune system damage
• Respiratory problems
• Liver and kidney failure
• Birth defects

In the U.S. PVC is manufactured predominately near low-income communities in Texas and Louisiana. The
toxic impact of pollution from these factories on these communities has made them front line struggles in the
environmental justice movement.
Lethal additives: PVC is useless without the addition of a plethora of toxic
chemical stabilizers - such as lead and cadmium - and phthalate plasticizers.
These leach, flake or outgas from the PVC over time raising risks from asthma
to lead poisoning to cancer.Global impact: Dioxin’s impact doesn’t stop there. As a persistent bioaccumulative
toxin (PBT), it does not breakdown rapidly and travels around
the globe, accumulating in fatty tissue and concentrating as it goes up the
food chain. Dioxins from Louisiana manufacturing plants migrate on the
winds and concentrate in Great Lakes fish. Dioxins are even found in hazardous
concentrations in the tissues of whales and arctic polar bears. The
dioxin exposure of the average American already poses a calculated risk of
somewhere between 1 in 100 to 1 in 1,000 - thousands of times greater
than the usual standard for acceptable risk. Most poignantly, dioxins concentrate
in breast milk to the point that human infants now receive high
doses, orders of magnitude greater than those of the average adult.Deadly
Fire Hazard: PVC poses a great risk in waste incineration and building fires,
as it releases deadly gases such as hydrogen chloride long before it ignites.
As it burns, it leaves behind toxic dioxin waste.

• Cancer
• Endometriosis
• Neurological damage
• Immune system damage
• Respiratory problems
• Liver and kidney failure
• Birth defects


Still keen on PVC solar panels?

Then keep reading...

http://www.myhouseisyourhouse.org/new_g ... ecycle.pdf

[mellie]

$80K hey?
Don't know anyone who's spent over $20K, and we're doin' just fine.
Make up any figures you like, we're still going to take the best deal we can get, and at the moment, that's Solar PV.

AFAIK poly vinyl chloride (PVC) is unrelated to photovoltaics, one's plastic, the other's silicone.

$80,000 is the average cost of converting to PVC solar, to supply up to 85% of your household energy requirements for an average size family.