Labor falls to historic lows: Newspoll

[Viking King.]

Very few have introduced carbon taxes and all of them are failing, badly.

The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's why you will always vote left, because you are fucking stupid

Ok, explain this for me grasshopper.
Futures fund, put together by the previous gov't, a good thing,
Q) When does the future start, tomorrow or 50 yrs from now?

[IQS.RLOW]

Nice dodge on the failures of trying to tax living but your question only highlights your idiocy. You don't realise why the future fund was set up

Go back to drooling in your weeties, tard. fluffy bunnies like you make me fucking sick

[Sappho]

@ the viking king

the future fund is good... it's there to pay for my retirement.

you see, most current public servants will not have an allocated pension based on superannuation employer/employee contributions... most public servants retire on an annual income comparable to their actual income and paid fortnightly... nice eh? Ohhh and the more we contribute to our superannuation, the greater the income on which we retire... so it is quite feasible to retire on an income greater than your actual income... I love it.

previously, this wonderful perk was paid out of the annual budget... but with the aging population there was growing concern amongst pollies that the amount payable annually would become untenable. so they set up the future fund to ensure I and my fellow public servants enjoy our very expensive perk.

At the same time as setting up the future fund, they changed the laws on public service superannuation... so that newer public servants don't retire on a wage comparable to their actual income... they have to live off superannuation contributions just like all the other poor suckers with all the market pitfalls associated with that. 10s of thousands have been wiped off super due to the GFC and those about to retire and those who are retired will see that loss in their allocated pensions... but not me... I'm exempt from market influences.

Now... the liberal party have solved their public service retirement issues for the future... but must still pay for the many thousands within the old scheme... like me! if you take away the fund that has been created to pay this fantastic perk then you are left with a huge bill that must come out of the yearly budget... so reducing the funding of other... more worthwhile programs.... and as a lefty, you don't want that.

[mantra]

Now... the liberal party have solved their public service retirement issues for the future... but must still pay for the many thousands within the old scheme... like me! if you take away the fund that has been created to pay this fantastic perk then you are left with a huge bill that must come out of the yearly budget... so reducing the funding of other... more worthwhile programs.... and as a lefty, you don't want that.

Of course we don't want that - but the PS super scheme is ridiculously generous.

Ok, explain this for me grasshopper.
Futures fund, put together by the previous gov't, a good thing,
Q) When does the future start, tomorrow or 50 yrs from now?

I agree VK. $70 billion sitting lazily in the slush fund to protect the public servants - yet the rest of Australia's future remains uncertain. Someone needs to clean up the place and tighten the purse strings. You can work in a govt. department for a few months and end up with a payout of tens of thousands - no wonder the rest of us struggle with second rate public services and ever increasing taxes, which considering the amount going into the coffers - should be first class.

[Sappho]

Actually Mantra, the future fund does not protect the public servants retirement payouts... they are guaranteed whether there is a future fund or not... what the future fund protects is the budget which no longer has to account for those retirement incomes and those retirement incomes are growing, not diminishing... as the baby boomers retire.

And the superannuation laws for public servants was changed by the liberal party so that new public servants have the same kind of scheme as everyone else... but that is not a retrospective change, nor could they make it a retrospective change.

I have no problem with them getting rid of the futures fund... but tell me, how will our children pay for these public service perks which are guaranteed with or without that fund? Do we increase taxes, reducing funding or a bit of both every budget night?

[mantra]

The money has always been found for retirement for the PS, but if there comes a day when the rest of Australia is struggling to stay afloat - why is it that the PS are guaranteed this income? We have to watch our superannuation often dwindle regardless of the market occasionally having a little buoyancy. It gets eaten up by fees and if the market crashes - we can often end up with nothing. The PS are guaranteed their super - no matter what stresses occur to the rest of us through market forces.

[Sappho]

The money has always been found for retirement for the PS, but if there comes a day when the rest of Australia is struggling to stay afloat - why is it that the PS are guaranteed this income?

Because it is part of our employment contract mantra. There would be a massive class action against the fed govt from current and retired employees for breech of contract if they tried to deny us our legal entitlements. In fact many public servants joined the public service because of the profoundly generous benefits that were offered as part of that employment.

We also get 13 weeks paid maternity leave.
20 days carers leave per annum
20 days sick leave per annum which accrues.
4 weeks rec leave with the option of half pay which extends the leave to 8 weeks and the option of 4 weeks purchased leave (where an amount is withheld up to the value of 4weeks pay to be used for additional rec leave)
2 days special leave
bereavement leave
adoption leave
leave without pay of up to 12mths
leave with pay of up to 12 mths
flex time
rostered days off (up to 2 per mth)
we average a standard wage rise of approx 3.5 per cent per annum... sometimes more. I notice that labor are less generous.

all that cost the tax payer also. now whilst you cannot change our conditions... you can certainly demand your money's worth and kick up a stink when you don't get your money's worth... I encourage it. Our conditions are too good and our public servants too slack.

We have to watch our superannuation often dwindle regardless of the market occasionally having a little buoyancy. It gets eaten up by fees and if the market crashes - we can often end up with nothing. The PS are guaranteed their super - no matter what stresses occur to the rest of us through market forces.

The liberal govt has changed the rules so that public servants who joined from about 2005 onwards (I would have to check that, but it was around then) have the same scheme as other australians. Eventually those of us on the old schemes will die out but it the mean time our legal entitlements will be paid... it's just a matter of how... the future fund or additional taxes and funding cuts.

You should also be please to note that the public service superannuation fund was one of the better performing super funds during the worst of the first wave GFC (within the top 5) because of conservative investments made and a good spread of cash/gold, shares and bonds... unlike commercial super funds who were battered because the fund managers sort high returns within the share market whilst holding limited cash/gold reserves and bonds. This means that the future fund will not suffer the added burden of funding excessive losses from the GFC.

On the up side... most employees can choose their own super fund and so should research or seek advise on the most consistant and diversified fund managers available.... by finding the best managed fund, you reduce your chances of feeling the full brunt of a down turn.

[mantra]

Yes - the conditions are fantastic in the public service and they tempt a lot of people. I chose the private sector over the public when I left school and stuck to it. Although it has been a sacrifice in terms of conditions, wages and especially superannuation - it is the freedom in private industry to be able to use your own initiative and be your own person. If you got bored, you could move onto something more challenging.

It's a sacrifice that you have to weigh up - being bored to the point of mind numbing apathy in the public service but being rewarded generously - or being free to follow your ideology and utilise your skills in the private sector without the comfort of a cash filled mattress to fall on when you retire.

[mellie]

Labor are finished, are stuck between a rock and a hard place, Greens will serve as their mandate when they enter the senate July this year.

Labor need both their voters and the Greens onside in order to win the 'Impossible" election, their only hope is to try and change their leadership again just before the next election, though I doubt they will pull it off a second time, with or without generous corporate campaign funding and or Bob's back-door votes.

Gillard said Labor had lost it's way, are they any closer to finding it?

[Pastafarian]

Very few have introduced carbon taxes and all of them are failing, badly.

The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. It's why you will always vote left, because you are fucking stupid

Can I ask several questions here.

1. Which countries have introduced a carbon tax?
2. Which of these is failing badly?
3. What is your criteria for failing badly?
4. If they have introduced a carbon tax and they are failing badly, has it been shown that the reason why they are failing badly is because of the introduction of the carbon tax.