Malcolm Turnbull

[cynik]

Abridged version:

Sorry for being verbose.

[TomB]

The power to make (and veto) law sits with the ordinary people. We don't have to choose lawmakers. Anyone can write a proposal, collect 100,000 signatures, and the parliament MUST put the motion to a national vote.

I have long been an advocate of a modern/electronic system of decision making like this for Australia. I believe it would be cheaper to install a dedicated network throughout Australia which allowed every Australian to have their personal say on every issue which concerned them, than it is to support our current politicians and their self serving system.

[Jovial Monk]

Nah, that won't work Tom. Not everyone can keep on top of everything that is happening.

Representative democracy is the name of the game, citizen initiated referendums produce weird results and while I used to think they were a good idea not sure anymore.

I take part in most GetUp petitions, think that is where citizen action is more usefully put.

One GetUp petition I did not take part in was about the Gunns pulpmill. All those against will keep on using paper, they just want the pulpmill in someone else's backyard.

[TomB]

Not everyone can keep on top of everything that is happening.

You don't have to keep on top of everything. Just what concerns you. Enough people would vote on every issue to make it a valid representation of the peoples will.

... citizen initiated referendums produce weird results and while I used to think they were a good idea not sure anymore.

Why, because they don't get the result you want? That's democracy buddy.

[Jovial Monk]

No because they produce weird results and are open to being influenced by big-moneyed lobby groups, like the Morons influenced the Californian CIR on gay marriage. So no different to just letting the politicians do their job.

Much can be done to reform our democracy, I quoted GetUp, but doubt CIR is the way to go.

[TomB]

.... are open to being influenced by big-moneyed lobby groups ....

Your short-sightedness is why you have to put up with the current system.

A properly implemented system would not allow political advertising in the main stream media and it would be restricted to the dedicated network under strict controls whereby everyone is rendered equal.

[Jovial Monk]

Any system can and eventually will be corrupted.

[TomB]

That's true, so it's better have a corrupt system that works best for the people rather than the current corrupt system which works best for politicians.

[cynik]

Abridged version:

Sorry for being verbose.

[Jovial Monk]

I am arrogant, you are wise and all knowing. Yeah, right!

People are people, they try to twist things to their own advantage. Rich people, corporations can and will be able to twist things to suit them.

Fuck, people here drink VB, fourex, West End Draught, crap made with more sugar than malt and say it is great beer! Why? Advertising! Inffluence!