Fare thee well

[Hebe]

Hope it left some mud on his face.

To go with the egg.

[xbz]

It is hilarious to me that there are still despite all the evidence to the contrary people around the world who actually believe that George Bush was some kind of Batman figure fighting evil in Iraq rather that a man who totally disregarded the wishes of the UN on their advice not to go to war and then disregarded the advice of other personnel that there were in fact NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the first place - his "reason" for going to war (the actual reason was pure vindictiveness in hitting a target which had nothing to do with the twin towers - he knew it then and he knows it now and god only knows how he can sleep at night)

[mantra.]

It is hilarious to me that there are still despite all the evidence to the contrary people around the world who actually believe that George Bush was some kind of Batman figure fighting evil in Iraq rather that a man who totally disregarded the wishes of the UN on their advice not to go to war and then disregarded the advice of other personnel that there were in fact NO weapons of mass destruction in Iraq in the first place - his "reason" for going to war (the actual reason was pure vindictiveness in hitting a target which had nothing to do with the twin towers - he knew it then and he knows it now and god only knows how he can sleep at night)

So true - but in reality Bush was only the puppet representing the neo-cons who demand control of the world. There's a huge group of them - many of them zionists - although they are in a different political and humane class to the average jewish person. The Iraq War was planned before 9/11 and we know that the war was based on lies, but the journalist who threw the shoes has paid the price, although he's lucky he wasn't shot. He ended up with broken arms, ribs and plenty of dripping blood and is now asking for a pardon. Whether or not the Whitehouse administration (who still pull the strings in Iraq) allow that remains to be seen.

[Jovial Monk]

No I think it was Bush riding to war in Daddy's tank and going one better than dear old Dad.

[JW Frogen]

I suppose when one has lived in the political luxury of democracy their entire life they may believe it to be mundane and become rather indifferent to those who have never had such blessings.

After all, they endure what you never could, and will struggle for that which you never have.

[mantra.]

I suppose when one has lived in the political luxury of democracy their entire life they may believe it to be mundane and become rather indifferent to those who have never had such blessings.

After all, they endure what you never could, and will struggle for that which you never have.JW Frogen

Of course this is true - but do you believe Bush & Co.'s invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan made the lives of the citizens any easier? Conditions have become a lot worse since Saddam was deposed and Afghanistan is the most dangerous country in the world.

Are the Iraqi's and Afghans grateful and happy with the US occupation? Even prior to the Iraq invasion - sanctions made the lives of the Iraqi's a misery and what for - WMD that didn't exist.

[JW Frogen]

Of course this is true - but do you believe Bush & Co.'s invasion into Iraq and Afghanistan made the lives of the citizens any easier?

To say conditions are worse in Afganistan than under the Talaban is, well, for a woman, partisanship gone completely mad.

In Iraq the progress and hope since the surge is better than under Saddam's perpetual tyranny, the economic growth rates are now higher than since his invasion of Kuwait and they determine their future, not Saddam.

But then I understand Mantra, it is easy to advocate tyranny when you do not live in one.

[Jovial Monk]

Since the surge, or since the arming of the sunnis? What will happen when the yanks and brits and ozzies etc leave Iraq? why the sunnis will seize power and a strongman will arise to keep the three part country together.

[mantra.]

But then I understand Mantra, it is easy to advocate tyranny when you do not live in one.

I can't argue with that. You're looking at a very positive long term picture for these countries and maybe one day it might be a reality.

But women in Afghanistan aren't better off today than they were in 2001 and are still being burnt by acid, raped, stoned to death and married while still children regardless of the democracy they supposedly live in now. To add to their misery they are forced to live in a war zone with little health care, decent food, schools and with the fear every day that a loved one will be blown up or murdered by one of the enemies. 80% of Afghans have mental problems. It isn't only the Afghans - US marines who have fought in the Middle East are coming home in droves with serious emotional trauma and bits and pieces of their body parts missing.

Iraq is no better off either. Living conditions are becoming worse by the year. Much of Iraq is without fresh water or electricity and the rebuilding of essential infrastructure is either incomplete or inadequate. There is no peace for the citizens in Iraq today and many of them who looked forward to the US getting rid of Saddam - would now prefer him to the uncertainty and instability of life today.

We aren't winning either war regardless of the media releases from the Whitehouse. Most people believe these countries were invaded solely for US economic & ideological gain, but now it's all become too hard and expensive for the US & their allies. They know they have to get out so they're pretending there is a great improvement and that Iraq & Afghanistan can fend for themselves. There is no strong leadership to maintain law and order now in these countries?

No matter how ultruistic a spin is put on the US led invasion in the Middle East - daily life grows considerably worse.

[cynik]

I suppose when one has lived in the political luxury of democracy their entire life they may believe it to be mundane and become rather indifferent to those who have never had such blessings.

After all, they endure what you never could, and will struggle for that which you never have.

I know it is futile and redundant, but check out the grotesque abuse of logic in this post from our resident starship hero.

People who will not go to war to spread American Style Sponsored by Corporate Overlords Representative Democracy ( or "ASS-CORD") are guilty of "indifference to those who have not been blessed".

But, anyway, leaving that to one side for a minute.... check out the next sentence. "..they endure what you never could..." and will "struggle for that which you never have."

Indeed. Given that Australians live in a system of colonial representation that is less similar to the US system than Iran is, it might be difficult for Aussies to get a hard on for ASS-CORD, and to struggle for it. But regardless, check out the logic. It is the iraqis who are "struggling" for democracy.

But if they struggle so hard for it, why did the USA sell weapons to the people they were struggling against?

And why, if they were so keen on the idea of democracy, do they hate the USA so much?

And why do they not establish this democracy by themselves?

See, in Frogen world there can only be one truth. Huge numbers of facts can jostle for attention, and be granted space in the smae sentences, but in the end there can only be one truth:

THE USA IS PERFECT, SO EVERYBODY LOVES THE USA.

He is such a dumb bastard, it is almost cute. He is like one of those big dogs that cannot stop dribbling and farting. When you hear about him, it is funny. It is like "no way! haha". But when you experience him up close it is like "Get this mutt out of here NOW!"

Imagine how the Swiss must think of guys like frogen. They live in a neutral country that has real democracy, and they watch semi intelligent scum like frogen bray about spreading phoney corporate ASS CORD to foreign states by invasion and force. There assistants in the war for democracy are the UK, a fucking monarchy with hereditary peers in the upper house, and Australia, a colony with the same head of state, the same MONARCH. These are the countries who go to war FOR DEMOCRACY.

From Switzerland, it is curious. It is, how to say, not convincing.

Anyway, I ought never have entered a frogen post. The stench does not wash off.