Free Counselling for Theists!

[Sappho]

The point to my whole debate is this: If you deny a person their god belief because it lacks proof, then equally you deny any belief that lacks proof. That is the hight of stupidity most likely born of ignorance about the world of knowledge and its acquisition.

Oi, don't get the shits with me Skunk. Several Little Birdies have told me you said (very publicly) that you were having a holiday in Hawaii before heading to Europe in November, 2010. These same sources reckon you said that you'd be off to Europe by November, 2010, (allegedly on some very important business) and that you would then be gone permanently. All I am doing is bringing your own alleged words to your attention, as it seems you having not gone anywhere. Is there a problem?

I did go to Hawaii, I have been to Europe, I left just prior to xmas and am delaying my return because it is too cold at the moment and because I have the luxury of time so can afford to wait out their winter in a warmer climate.

Several Little Birdies eh... I see you're still talk about people behind their backs like the filthy little slime that you are.

[Swami Dring]

The point to my whole debate is this: If you deny a person their god belief because it lacks proof, then equally you deny any belief that lacks proof. That is the hight of stupidity most likely born of ignorance about the world of knowledge and its acquisition.

Evidence, jizzknuckles, evidence. You won't catch me using the word "proof".

Oi, don't get the shits with me Skunk. Several Little Birdies have told me you said (very publicly) that you were having a holiday in Hawaii before heading to Europe in November, 2010. These same sources reckon you said that you'd be off to Europe by November, 2010, (allegedly on some very important business) and that you would then be gone permanently. All I am doing is bringing your own alleged words to your attention, as it seems you having not gone anywhere. Is there a problem?

I did go to Hawaii, I have been to Europe, I left just prior to xmas and am delaying my return because it is too cold at the moment and because I have the luxury of time so can afford to wait out their winter in a warmer climate.

You weren't in Europe. I was there and I didn't see you. Stop making shit up.

[Sappho]

The point to my whole debate is this: If you deny a person their god belief because it lacks proof, then equally you deny any belief that lacks proof. That is the hight of stupidity most likely born of ignorance about the world of knowledge and its acquisition.

Evidence, jizzknuckles, evidence. You won't catch me using the word "proof".

Proof is a more sophisticated word than evidence because its meaning incorporates 'evidence' and/or 'argument'.

You weren't in Europe. I was there and I didn't see you. Stop making shit up.

[/quote]

I didn't see you there either.... because you weren't.

[Swami Dring]

"An axiom is a well-formed formula that is stipulated rather than proved to be so through the application of rules
of inference. The axioms and the rules of inference jointly provide a basis for proving all other
theorems. As different sets of axioms may generate the same set of theorems, there may be many
alternative axiomatizations of the formal system."

Nelson’s Dictionary of Mathematics (2nd ed.)

God is a stipulation rather than a proof in the explanation of how the universe became. In this, it has a lot in common with maths... just theory and nothing more... but tends to work well for those who would believe in it.

You're still pretty sweet on the magic poof, eh?

This is a common phenomenon, it seems, among people who were raised to be believers, by believers. They will claim to have outgrown the fairy tale, but they still get very defensive when the absurdity of faith is waggled in front of them. Perhaps it is because this reminds them that they were morons for many years, or perhaps it is because it reminds them that their family members who still believe are still morons.

If god did in fact "work well for those who would believe in it", then the faithful would not be the slightest bit offended when those more advanced point out their absurdity to them. Deny Newton's laws to a physicist and he will ignore you. Deny god to many religious crazies and you will get hysteria, outrage, bashings, stonings and woe most grievous. Why the stark diffence in the reactions between the scientist and the religious?

Because.......................

.......................

wait for it........................

......................

because the religious ****************************know*************************** it's bullshit too.

That's right, they know it's bullshit, and they are flat out maintaining the charade of faith. And the last thing they need is an atheist dangling the truth in front of them.

[Sappho]

If god did in fact "work well for those who would believe in it", then the faithful would not be the slightest bit offended when those more advanced point out their absurdity to them.

Bearing in mind that there can never be anything like rational certainty in one's belief system...

Life without purpose, life as a cosmic accident in an uncaring Universe (even a causal one), an experience of life that emerges from nothingness like a slowly growing flame, burns brightly for a time, and then gutters out slowly or is blown out in an instant is somehow horrible, unthinkable. It is not just that we live only for an instant and then die (at least in terms of geological times as best as we can deduce them from the many axioms above) it is that our life did not matter. The Universe itself is here only for an instant, an eyeblink against the frightening expanse of Eternity as we intuitively perceive it. One day all that is will not be, and even the memory of its existence itself will one day perish, so why bother?

Here is where the utter freedom of one's choice of axioms can liberate one from the utter despair of this line of thinking, from the selfishness and self-orientation on the now that it encourages, from the misery of a life in spent in existential crises. There is no reason to believe in anything, to be sure. However, there is equally well no reason not to believe in something. They are both equally irrational, but the former is more than a bit silly nevertheless, just as is actually acting as if the Universe were not a causal place is silly.

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy ... ode56.html

[Swami Dring]

Bearing in mind that there can never be anything like rational certainty in one's belief system...

Life without purpose, life as a cosmic accident in an uncaring Universe (even a causal one), an experience of life that emerges from nothingness like a slowly growing flame, burns brightly for a time, and then gutters out slowly or is blown out in an instant is somehow horrible, unthinkable. It is not just that we live only for an instant and then die (at least in terms of geological times as best as we can deduce them from the many axioms above) it is that our life did not matter. The Universe itself is here only for an instant, an eyeblink against the frightening expanse of Eternity as we intuitively perceive it. One day all that is will not be, and even the memory of its existence itself will one day perish, so why bother?

Here is where the utter freedom of one's choice of axioms can liberate one from the utter despair of this line of thinking, from the selfishness and self-orientation on the now that it encourages, from the misery of a life in spent in existential crises. There is no reason to believe in anything, to be sure. However, there is equally well no reason not to believe in something. They are both equally irrational, but the former is more than a bit silly nevertheless, just as is actually acting as if the Universe were not a causal place is silly.

http://www.phy.duke.edu/~rgb/Philosophy ... ode56.html

This passage is the circumlocutory way of saying that egomania is one of the three pillars of faith (along with fear and stupidity).

That is, the self-evident fact that we indeed are ephemeral beings bound for an eternity of deadness simply cannot be reconciled with the throbbing, massive ego of the humble believer.

When one's ego is in check, the fact that we don't live forever is not a problem. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. We as humans get a very good deal. We outlive just about every other species and in the developed world we live like kings. As for "life without purpose", pffft, what a load. If there are things in life that you like to do, and that's just about everyone, then your life has purpose.

The wanker who wrote the passage trots out the old cliche of the "selfishness" of unbelief. The atheist perspective requires genuine humility. There is nothing flattering about believing that we are temporary beings who get only one brief shot at life. If we were selfish, we would invent a story about a magic fag who looks just like us and who created the universe just for us.

[Sappho]

... in the developed world we live like kings...

the developed world was founded on christianity not atheism.

As for "life without purpose", pffft, what a load. If there are things in life that you like to do, and that's just about everyone, then your life has purpose.

Why bother liking in the first place? what would be the reason for liking and what evidence do you have for that reason to like things.

[Ned Kelly]

the developed world was founded on christianity not atheism.

There are a few zillion Arabs, Japanese, Chinese, and Indian, just to name four who will confound your selfish version. But hey, it is all about you, isn't it?

[Sappho]

the developed world was founded on christianity not atheism.

There are a few zillion Arabs, Japanese, Chinese, and Indian, just to name four who will confound your selfish version. But hey, it is all about you, isn't it?

Except for the japanese, the rest are developing worlds. Japan was founded on Shintoismo and was once the state religion.

Try again.

[Ned Kelly]

You said:

the developed world was founded on christianity

Where does 'state religion' fit in?

It doesn't. You are 'pizzed,' and talking shit, as usual.