Liars, Lunatics or Liaisons

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AiA in Atlanta

Re: Liars, Lunatics or Liaisons

Post by AiA in Atlanta » Thu Dec 16, 2010 1:02 am

Buddhism came to Tibet more than a 1000 years ago. Was it transformed by the local population? Without a doubt. But it is still Buddhism.

Outlaw Yogi

Re: Liars, Lunatics or Liaisons

Post by Outlaw Yogi » Thu Dec 16, 2010 8:46 pm

Sorry AiA, you are correct, I mucked my chronology up
http://www.medbib.com/Tibetan_Buddhism#Early_history
History
Songtsän Gampo
Early history

According to a Tibetan legendary tradition, the text of Kāraṇḍavyūhasūtra arrived in a casket from the sky unto the roof of the palace of the 28th king of Tibet, Lha Thothori Nyantsen who died in 650 C.E., in southern Tibet.[29]

While there is a level of doubt about the level of interest in Buddhism of king Songtsän Gampo (who died in 650) it is known that he married a Chinese Tang Dynasty Buddhist princess, Wencheng, who came to Tibet with a statue of Shakyamuni Buddha. It is however clear from Tibetan sources that some of his successors became ardent Buddhists. The records show that Chinese Buddhists were actively involved in missionary activity in Tibet, they did not have the same level of imperial support as Indian Buddhists, with tantric lineages from Bihar and Bengal.[30]

According to a Tibetan legendary tradition, Songtsän Gampo also married a Nepalese Buddhist princess, Bhrikuti. By the second half of the 8th century he was already regarded as an embodiment of the bodhisattva Avalokiteśvara.[31]

The successors of Songtsän Gampo were less enthusiastic about the propagation of Buddhism but in the 8th century, King Trisong Detsen (755-797) established it as the official religion of the state.[32] He invited Indian Buddhist scholars to his court. In his age the famous tantric mystic Padmasambhāva arrived in Tibet according to the Tibetan tradition. In addition to writing a number of important scriptures, some of which he hid for future tertons to find, Padmasambhāva, along with Śāntarakṣita, established the Nyingma school.

The outlines of the history of Buddhism in Tibet from this time are well-known.[33] At this early time also, from the south came the influence of scholars under the Pāla dynasty in the Indian state of Magadha. They had achieved a blend of Mahāyāna and Vajrayāna that has come to characterize all forms of Tibetan Buddhism. Their teaching in sutra centered on the Abhisamayālankāra, a 4th century Yogācārin text, but prominent among them were the Mādhyamika scholars Śāntarakṣita and Kamalaśīla.

A third influence was that of the Sarvāstivādins from Kashmir in the south west[34] and Khotan in the north west.[35] Although they did not succeed in maintaining a presence in Tibet, their texts found their way into the Tibetan Buddhist canon, providing the Tibetans with almost all of their primary sources about the Foundation Vehicle. A subsect of this school, Mūlasarvāstivāda was the source of the Tibetan vinaya.[36]

A fourth influence from China in the east came in the form of Chan.
Padmasambhāva, founder of the Nyingmapa, the earliest school of Tibetan Buddhism. Note the wide-open eyes, characteristic of a particular method of meditation.[37]
Transmission of Chan to the Nyingmapa

According to A. W. Barber of the University of Calgary,[38] Chan Buddhism was introduced to the Nyingmapa in three principal streams: the teachings of Korean Master Kim, Kim Ho-shang, (Chin ho shang) 金和尚 transmitted by Sang Shi[39] in ca. 750 CE; the lineage of Master Wu Chu (無住禪師) of the Pao T'ang School was transmitted within Tibet by Ye-shes Wangpo; and the teaching from Mo Ho Yen, 和尚摩訶衍 (Tibetan: Hwa shang Mahayana) that were a synthesis of the Northern School of Chan and the Pao T'ang School.[40]

Tibetan king Khri srong lde btsan (742–797) invited the Ch’an master Mo-ho-yen (whose name consists of the same Chinese characters used to transliterate “Mahayana”) to transmit the Dharma at Samye Monastery. Mo-ho-yen had been disseminating Dharma in the Tun-huang locale, but, according to Tibetan sources, lost an important philosophical debate on the nature of emptiness with the Indian master Kamalaśīla, and the king declared Kamalaśīla's philosophy should form the basis for Tibetan Buddhism.[41] However, a Chinese source says their side won, and some scholars conclude that the entire episode is fictitious.[42] Pioneering Buddhologist Giuseppe Tucci speculated that Hwashang's ideas were preserved by the Nyingmapas in the form of dzogchen teachings.[43] John Myrdhin Reynolds holds a very different point of view stating "Except for a brief flirtation with Ch'an in the early days of Buddhism in Tibet in the eighth century, the Tibetans exhibited almost no interest at all in Chinese Buddhism, except for translating a few Sutras from Chinese for which they did not possess Indian originals." [44]
Atiśa

Whichever may be the case, Tibetan Buddhists today trace their spiritual roots from Indian masters such as Padmasambhāva, Atiśa, Tilopa, Naropa and their later Tibetan students.
Later history

From the outset Buddhism was opposed by the native shamanistic Bön religion, which had the support of the aristocracy, but with royal patronage it thrived to a peak under King Rälpachän (817-836). Terminology in translation was standardised around 825, enabling a translation methodology that was highly literal. Despite a reversal in Buddhist influence which began under King Langdarma (836-842), the following centuries saw a colossal effort in collecting available Indian sources, many of which are now extant only in Tibetan translation.

Tibetan Buddhism exerted a strong influence from the 11th century CE among the peoples of Central Asia, especially in Mongolia and Manchuria. It was adopted as an official state religion by the Mongol Yuan dynasty and the Manchu Qing dynasty that ruled China. Coinciding with the early discoveries of "hidden treasures" (terma),[45] the 11th century saw a revival of Buddhist influence originating in the far east and far west of Tibet.[46] In the west, Rinchen Zangpo (958-1055) was active as a translator and founded temples and monasteries. Prominent scholars and teachers were again invited from India. In 1042 Atiśa arrived in Tibet at the invitation of a west Tibetan king. This renowned exponent of the Pāla form of Buddhism from the Indian university of Vikramaśīla later moved to central Tibet. There his chief disciple, Dromtonpa founded the Kadampa school of Tibetan Buddhism, under whose influence the New Translation schools of today evolved.

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Swami Dring
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Re: Liars, Lunatics or Liaisons

Post by Swami Dring » Sat Dec 18, 2010 12:04 am

AiA in Atlanta wrote:Swami has thrown the baby out with the bath water as atheists usually do.
What you'll find when you empty the tub is that there was no baby in it after all.

The only experiences in my life that I would describe as transcendental all involved illicit narcotics. Specifically, ecstasy and acid (not at the same time).

Everyone should do ecstasy once. Make sure it's good shit, because there's LOTS of crap E out there, and do it with a few close friends or your partner. My first time was over twenty years ago and I still remember it vividly. It was HUGE. But once is enough as it seems that first experience with ecstasy cannot be replicated.

And everyone should do acid periodically. Not often, as it's too disruptive and time-consuming. Once a year or so works for me. It's not a social drug, so at home in front of the box or the pooter is good. Some remarkable insights into the human condition are to be had via LSD, and unlike E, the law of diminishing returns does not apply. A spliff or two when coming down is advisable.
Mankind will not be free until the last king is strangled with the guts of the last priest

Outlaw Yogi

Re: Liars, Lunatics or Liaisons

Post by Outlaw Yogi » Sat Dec 18, 2010 10:42 am

Not sure everyone can handle acid .. or mushies .. and daytura. Some never fully come back and seem to lose their personality in the trip. I've never experienced extasy so can't comment, but have tried most conventional illicit substances.
I've never had what I'd consider/regard as profound realisations or glimpses of enlightenment under the influence of any mind altering substance .. ever. But I have had experiences I can describe in minute detail but not explain in rational terms .. so figure I percieved it via a semi psychotic state.
What I can say is the euphoric sensation felt during 'seeing the light' [sic] is stronger and nicer than that felt on LSD trips.

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