87% take up the NBN

[Jovial Monk]

As the NBN gets rolled out more and more the actual 84% acceptance of the NBN in Armidale will be a floor with acceptance rising rapidly to 95%.

Now SN make the case that wieless everywhere, 11mbps makes economic sense:

1. That it costs less, and I don’t think you can show that

2. That 11mbps asymmetric wireless, as sole network or as the (ridiculous) last mile in a FTTN will make the Australian economy grow.

You have to bear in mind the nature of wireless—more than 5 users and performance is seriously downgraded. Some real data as to the danger of all this extra EM radiation you want to shove down our throats.

I await your reply with interest. Put up or shut up.

[Jovial Monk]

More trials to come.

Huawei has shed further light on Long Term Evolution (LTE) trials revealed by Vodafone Hutchison Australia (VHA) yesterday.

The vendor said in a brief statement that the trials near Newcastle, north of Sydney, used 10 MHz of spectrum in the 1800 MHz band.

In addition to achieving maximum downlink speeds of 74.3 Mbps, the network also managed an "average uplink throughput of 5.6 Mbps", a spokesman said.

"Huawei and VHA are currently planning further trials of LTE," a spokesman for the vendor said.

"This is just the first step".

Telstra and Optus have been conducting separate LTE trials, achieving speeds ranging from 50 Mbps to 100 Mbps in a range of lab and live tests.

http://www.itnews.com.au/News

74/6 Note how asymmetric that is! Unsuitable for cloud computing, WAN games, video telephone calls etc

In real life, 7.5/.6Mbps, possibly double that, double again at like 4.00am Sunday. But not if it rains or there is a tree in the line-of-sight to the LTE tower. And much, much higher EM load.

And it is fixed wireless, not mobile wireless, need an antenna on the roof. If it is fixed, FTTH is a much better bargain, and not much dearer than ubiquitous LTE wireless. Cost of installation. . .?

[Super Nova]

Telstra and Accenture team up for enterprise cloud
By Steve Hodgkinson

Enthusiasm for cloud computing in Australia is growing but slowly as CIOs await the arrival of trusted onshore services from at-scale enterprise-grade vendors. Telstra and Accenture announced today that they will partner to bring an offering called Network Computing Services to the big end of town. Cloud is a scale game, big is better, and biggest is best, so the combination of two of the biggest players in strategy, implementation, and operations in Australia will be a confidence booster to CIOs considering their cloud-sourcing options.

A slowly evolving market
The enterprise cloud computing market is still nascent in Australia, but it is starting to pick up. Existing domestic IT outsourcing and managed services players such as Macquarie Telecom and Melbourne IT are in the market, along with some of the global vendors such as CSC and Fujitsu. Optus recently announced the launch of an infrastructure-as-a-service offering called Elevate – partnering with its own Alphawest subsidiary for implementation. Verizon has announced its intention to bring its global computing-as-a-service offering to the Australian market in 2011.

A particular issue in Australia is a strongly stated preference by enterprise and government customers for data to remain onshore within Australian legal jurisdiction. This is compounded by the knowledge that the elastic properties of cloud require scale – no CIO wants to be a big customer of a small cloud provider.

In this context, the enterprise cloud market in Australia remains largely unexplored territory – a market awaiting a dominant leader.

Clearly cloud is going to be big in Australia. It look like we ae starting to put plans in place to catch-up.

In response to a question put to the PM at an Australian Israel Chamber of Commerce business leaders lunch in Sydney today on whether the money invested in the NBN would be better off going to hospitals, Gillard said that people should look at the benefits the technology would bring to the country.

"The question about cost needs to be reverse engineered. Can we afford not to have this technology when our competitors do?" Gillard said. "The nations in our region: Singapore, Korea, they are getting this technology. If we leave ourselves behind where does this leave our economy in such a competitive world?"

http://www.zdnet.com.au/reverse-the-nbn ... 306517.htm

I asiimilar argument to Aussie's re the harbour bridge ...etc.

If we don't do something we will be left behind.

I am changing my view after researching the topic further

As much as I hate to say this Monk. This debate has been useful because it has forced me to research my position on wireless and the NBN. Government ar there to make the big decisions. They have made a big decision and sometimes it needs to be made for strategic long term reasons. I think wireless world I envisage needs a strong backbone. NBN will provide that. Tehy are complimentary as you have stated. Wireless neeeds the backbone. NBN looks like being that backbone.

So.....

In this debate you have convinced me that NBN will be good for the future of Australia. The issues of value for money aside (I still think it could be achieved at a lower cost) having NBN will be in the long term a good thing.

I can not find any real evidence of a wireless alterative since they all need a strong network backbone.

We will move to a wireless world. However the local point of wireless presence will be delivered by NBN.

So.....

NBN will be a good thing.

You win this debate. i have moved someway towards your argued view. i move because we need a backbone for everything else that is to come.

Well done!!! Humble pie for lunch.

[Jovial Monk]

Takes a big man to admit he is wrong.

I am wrong too: wifi is not enough to take advantage of the NBN. So a NBN subscriber to take advantage of 100mbps+ speeds needs to run some Cat6 cables. Cost $4-500 to wire up 3-4 rooms, those taking the cheaper 25mbps phone/internet package can use a $50 wireless router, maybe just one Cat6 run to the HD TV.

If wifi isn’t enough, wireless broadband absolutely sucks in metro areas.

Now, get a move on NBN!

[Super Nova]

Thanks.

Well that is the purpose of a debate. I need to be open minded to the arguements or all we have are arguments rather than debates.

Cheers,
SN

[Jovial Monk]

Hmmm maybe we were both right:

Comment from PB:

Re the NBN, as it is in my area of expertise, though I would summarise it in the following points.

. Speed will be 100/1000mbps the key issue is that is will not degrade the further you are away from the exchange. For ADSL 10km is a long way from the exchange.

. The bandwidth is not shared with other users.

. Installation costs are about the same as for copper (which in many areas is due for replacement)

. Installation in to a house will involve another jack, and you get a connection by plugging your modem into it. From there it it up to you, you can cable your house, use a local wireless network, or as I have found, use Ethernet over power (it works quite well, buy 2 power plugs , plug them in and attach a network cable at each plug)

. A key enabler for new technologies is that the bandwidth is available in each direction.

. The most important thing is that is will be everywhere, for education, business, health, you can assume that they will be on the NBN (even liberal voters)

. Wireless will get bigger and bigger, the available wireless bandwidth will be used by portable devices,in time the TV frequencies will migrate to the NBN freeing up more bandwidth for wireless, it is anticipated that in time all public transport, commercial Vehicles,shipping containers will be connected on a wireless network.

. It solves the Telstra monopoly issues, yes it does replace it with another monopoly, but it is owned by the Govt and all retailers will have equal access, what we have now is worse.

. Telstra has realised the NBN will help them, they are recommending it to their shareholders.

. Despite the ‘debt’ the Govt can easily afford this. It is an investment for the future on the back of current tax revenues. It is important we have something to pass onto the next Generation.

http://blogs.crikey.com.au/pollbludger/ ... ent-665657

[Super Nova]

Wireless will get bigger and bigger, the available wireless bandwidth will be used by portable devices,in time the TV frequencies will migrate to the NBN freeing up more bandwidth for wireless, it is anticipated that in time all public transport, commercial Vehicles,shipping containers will be connected on a wireless network.

Yes. Wireless needs a backbone network. So NBN will free some capacity/usage of wireless network but it will be filled with the new innovations to come. I see them now as complimentary. Wireles needs a backbone.

The future is so bright we will all need to wear shades (on the net)

[IQSRLOW]

It will be a disaster just like every other liebor idea.

All good intentions but unable to deliver and implement. You forget SN, that JM still purports that the LIKABS (Liebor insulation killing and burning scheme) that was such a debacle, was a magnificent scheme.

JM has been so wrong about so many of his predictions so often that it is commonplace for the TAB to read his twitterblog and adjust their odds in the opposite direction to what he thinks will happen.

This will be another in a long line of his failings of how to send public money down the shitter, You only have to note that he had to pull a single town in this thread to try and support the fact that the takeup of the NBN has been abysmal. He knows that it will only cater to sad fucks like him.

The rest of the world has relied on industry to roll out the service as required. Anywhere a govt has got involved in tech has been a disaster and considering this govt, it's just about a given, given their track record of fucking up majorly.

In the words of Shane Warne- can't bat, can't bowl. What the fuck are they doing there?

[Super Nova]

It will be a disaster just like every other liebor idea.

All good intentions but unable to deliver and implement. You forget SN, that JM still purports that the LIKABS (Liebor insulation killing and burning scheme) that was such a debacle, was a magnificent scheme.

JM has been so wrong about so many of his predictions so often that it is commonplace for the TAB to read his twitterblog and adjust their odds in the opposite direction to what he thinks will happen.

This will be another in a long line of his failings of how to send public money down the shitter, You only have to note that he had to pull a single town in this thread to try and support the fact that the takeup of the NBN has been abysmal. He knows that it will only cater to sad fucks like him.

The rest of the world has relied on industry to roll out the service as required. Anywhere a govt has got involved in tech has been a disaster and considering this govt, it's just about a given, given their track record of fucking up majorly.

In the words of Shane Warne- can't bat, can't bowl. What the fuck are they doing there?

IQ,

Monk could be wrong about many things however i needed to conceed on the issues that NBN is not going to be bad for Australia having investigated it. The value for money argument is still open and i think the same goal could have been achieved for less but that is a separate issue that is not worth the argument. Time will tell on that point.

I agree with you that government has a poor history of how they spend our money on such projects, however the project is going and if it delivers the technology as promised it will be good technology. It should have long term benefits to the ecconomy. Will the cost outway the benefits... I hope not... will they spend more than the minimum needed... absolutely.

I just hope it is not 2 times what is needed. i hope it is something 1.2 times what is needed. It will be interesting to see the business case when the opposition get their way on this and the truth becomes known. I don't think that will stop anything with regards to the NBN roll-out.

NBN is a good idea. It is just poorly executed. The execution (cost) is the problem.

Cheers,
SN

[Jovial Monk]

Now there is someone that will never change their mind: you need a mind before you can change it!

With the introduction of the HIP came regulations and standards making this dangerous industry a lot safer. The fires and deaths of installers was less than half the rate it was in the ten years before the HIP. Lives and houses will be saved from the start of the HIP.

Why don’t you cry about the deaths and fires from Howard’s disastrous Sydney Airport noise insulation scheme? A much, much smaller project than the HIP!

And the HIP was one stimulus measure which meant unemployment grew to no more than 5.8%

People like LIMITED_IQ cherry pick figures to try and support some pissweak argument they have. LIMITED_IQ weeps crocodile tears over the four installers that died but don’t give a shit of the regular construction deaths that happen.

Rely on one town? No, that is you, referring to some of the Tasmanian test sites.

On the mainland on average seventy seven percent of people in the test sites took up the NBN with figures ranging from 87+percent in Armidale to 84% in Willunga to 54% in Townsville. 54% is still more than 50% LIMITED_IQ!