climate change and how the left has been misleading public

[Jovial Monk]

Fucking garbage.

[Outlaw Yogi]

What the fuck would you know?
You don't seem to do/say anything without being generally just a fuckwit prick.
And apparently not a very bright one at that.

[Super Nova]

What do you mean "when" it's released?
The frozen methane has already thawing and has been being released for the last 3 years.
As for killing the cows, well how about trashing all the vegetable crops?
Far more Nitrous oxide is released every time farmers fertilise that when a whole herd burps & farts.
And Nitrous oxide is 10 times more potent a GHG tha methane.

"Nitrous oxide " does this mean that we will have high voice pitches in the future as the world is flooded with NO2.

I do agree. it is not a matter of when.

The real issue for me is not the rise in sea level. That is something we will have to adjust to. What concerns me is the effect of a rise in temperature will have that will lead to a massive release of methane and other GHG and we end of with a run away GH effect leading to 10 degrees C increase in temperature. The equivent to the great mass extinction. I think humanity will survive this however it will kill a significant portion of humanity. They may not be a bad thing in the long term since we are over populating hte planet and nature will bring us into check at some point. I am more worried that it may effect my childs life as i can see this causing real problem in the next 100 years.

I am not an optimist when it comes to humans doing the right thing. We are selfish, short term thinkers in general and we have no way of governing behavour for the collective good of the whole.

We shit in our own nest. We should expect that at some point we will be covered in shit then die.

Yes it's quite possible runaway global warming could cause a Permian extinction like scenario.

From what i have read this is the biggest risk to us. The probability of this scenario increases everyday we do not address global warming. When we hit the 5 degrees C increase due to our contribution, the release of methane and other gren houses gases from the environment will be the beginning of a run away effect for at least another 5 degrees. If we then don't change it could get worse.

The only good thing is that 1/2 of humanity may die waking us up to the long term need to protect our environmnet. The sad thing is it requires a disaster for humanity to learn and take action. One way or another, we will change and start to worry about the biosphere of our planet. One way or another it will b the natural outcome. It is a matter of when.

[Super Nova]

Fucking garbage.

What a well articulated argument Monk. I see your contribution to the point in debate is well thought through, leaves no stone unturned and backed up by significant research.

I am glad to see you are back making valuable contributions to this site.

Thank you for your valuable contribution on this topic.

[Jovial Monk]

If oil production was really going to decline markedly and the world still relied on petrol then coal would be turned into petrol, no argument.

I never said that I thought this would be good.

Fucking garbage!

Hey SN, shit stirrer, this sort of thing is now what this board is all about! FD/boxhead/TiA/LowIQ have bee working hard to drag down standards here! So if this is the new ideal here who am I to resist and try and maintain standards? The only standard here now is low and declining standards!

There is a PA board with high standards: http://www.polanimal.com.au

[Super Nova]

If oil production was really going to decline markedly and the world still relied on petrol then coal would be turned into petrol, no argument.

I never said that I thought this would be good.

Fucking garbage!

Hey SN, shit stirrer, this sort of thing is now what this board is all about! FD/boxhead/TiA/LowIQ have bee working hard to drag down standards here! So if this is the new ideal here who am I to resist and try and maintain standards? The only standard here now is low and declining standards!

There is a PA board with high standards: http://www.polanimal.com.au

Gee Monk you don't seem to be able to take as good as you give. Yes I was shit stirring.

Build a bridge.
Get over it.

Now you have to come here to promote your own board. Pretty sad don't you think.

[Jovial Monk]

Old Trees May Soon Meet Their Match

GREAT BASIN NATIONAL PARK, Nev. — For millenniums, the twisted, wind-scoured bristlecone pines that grow at the roof of western North America have survived everything nature could throw at them, from bitter cold to lightning to increased solar radiation.

Living in extreme conditions about two miles above sea level, they have become the oldest trees on the planet. The oldest living bristlecone, named Methuselah, has lived more than 4,800 years.

Now, however, scientists say these ancient trees may soon meet their match in the form of a one-two punch, from white pine blister rust, an Asian fungus that came to the United States from Asia, via Europe, a century ago, and the native pine bark beetle, which is in the midst of a virulent outbreak bolstered by warming in the high-elevation West.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/28/scien ... l?_r=2&hpw

Fucking world better wake up and soon! Millions of hectares of softwood have been killed by these pine bark beetles in Canada—really cold winters used to kill enough of the beetles in winter to keep them under control, now winters are too mild. wonder what other pests are going to start running amuck due AGW? Hope the Greens don’t kill the next carbon pricing legislation.

From the BBC we hear of spring arriving in Britain 11 days earlier than usual and migratory birds consequently arriving too late for optimal feeding and breeding:

Climate risks greater for long distance migratory birds

Swallows are among the species that make long distance migrations to northern Europe

Birds embarking on long distance migrations are more vulnerable to shifts in the climate than ones making shorter journeys, a study suggests.

Scientists say the increasingly early arrival of spring at breeding sites in Europe makes it harder for the birds to attract a mate or find food.

The researchers warn that the "increasing ecological mismatch" can lead to a decline in bird populations.

The findings appear in the journal Proceedings B of the Royal Society.

"The study was based on a very large dataset of 117 migratory bird species that migrate from Africa or southern Europe to northern Europe, covering about 50 years," explained co-author Nicola Saino, from the University of Milan.

“By arriving late, the birds are probably missing the best period in which to breed”

The international team of researchers, from Italy, Germany, Finland and Russia, wanted to see if the spring arrival time of the birds at their breeding sites had changed over the past half century.

To achieve this, they used the birds' average arrival days at a number of bird observatories in northern Europe.

The team then compared this information with the corresponding year's "degree days", which refers to the total of average daily temperatures above a threshold that will trigger natural cycles, such as plants coming into leaf or flower.

"We know that temperatures affect the progress of spring - the higher the temperatures in the first months of the year, the earlier spring arrives," Professor Saino told BBC News.

'Missed opportunities'

Earlier this year, researchers from the UK's Centre for Ecology and Hydrology published a study that suggested that spring was arriving in the UK 11 days earlier than 30 years ago.

Warmer starts to the year are resulting in plants coming into leaf earlier, the study suggests

Professor Saino and the team found that spring was beginning earlier, which had a consequence for the migratory birds.

"The birds that have not kept track with the changes have declined more in northern Europe."

These were primarily species making long distance migrations from sub-Saharan areas, a diverse set including ducks, swallows and warblers.

"The most likely problem is that there is optimum time in spring for the birds to breed; and by arriving late, the birds are probably missing the best period in which to breed," he said.

"Peaks in food abundance, such as insects, are very narrow in northern latitudes; so if you arrive too late and miss the peak, then you miss the best opportunity to raise your offspring.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-11408439

[Super Nova]

A stronger Sun actually cools the Earth
An increase in solar activity from the Sun actually cools the Earth, suggests new research that will renew the debate over the science behind climate change.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro ... Earth.html

Now this is an interesting article. If it is true then we may have a bigger problem on global warming than we throught.

[Jovial Monk]

That doesn’t sound terribly intuitive but will read that article. We have certainly been heating up in a time of low solar activity, which don’t sound too good to me. methane is already being released from melting tundras and the like. It was thought Antartica had stable or growing ice but increasingly we see (from NASA research) that Antartica has been losing snow and ice cover too. A bit worrying one would think.

[Jovial Monk]

What????

As solar activity waned at the end of one of the Sun's 11-year cycles, the new data shows the amount of light and heat reaching the Earth rose rather than fell. Its impact on melting polar ice caps, and drying up rivers could therefore have been exaggerated by conventional climate models during the period.

Scientists also believe it may also be possible that during the next upturn of the cycle, when solar activity increases, there might be a cooling effect at the Earth's surface.

This isn’t a study, this is gossip, speculation when the bong is drawing well!

No attempt made there to relate this to dry El Nino or wet La Nina!