Turbo 4cyl or V6

[Baronvonrort]

Would you pick a turbo 4 cyl or a V6.

I should preface this with the belief that new 4cyls are more than powerful enough and a well tuned turbo can give diesel like performance.

It depends on what you are going to use it for.

If it's towing a boat or caravan i would go for the one with a longer stroke they give good torque at cruising speeds, if it's for going fast one with a short stroke they will rev harder.

A turbo diesel will give excellent torque for towing they don't have high redline so not really suited for redlining it all the time.

Less than 2 L capacity then the 4 anything bigger i would go the V6 or straight 6. If it's a V motor it really needs twin turbos for best results.

I wouldn't buy anything with a turbo they need 98 fuel sometimes it can be hard to get in remote areas. Fuel goes off with age when you open jerry can for mowers etc and hear noise that's all the high octane aromatics bleeding off. Always buy fuel from servos that have good turnover for fresh fuel.

Subaru sell a can of upper engine cleaner ($20) to decarbon intake and combustion chamber they use it every service with WRX. Turbos get more carbon buildup because they run rich on boost which causes problems with detonation if not cleaned out the carbon buildup on pistons becomes incandescent when you give it a thrash. Having rebuilt numerous engines the carbon buildup on piston skirts matches wear pattern in bores. The CC pressures are higher with turbos so more blow by past piston rings the black carbon buildup below piston rings on skirts happens because of this. The Subaru engine cleaner is good stuff it brings all alloys back to bright shiny like new i put it through all the engines i have.

A bigger engine will last longer with cruising you don't have to rev it as hard to get moving a smaller engine that needs to be revved harder isn't going to last as long.

[sprintcyclist]

Would you pick a turbo 4 cyl or a V6.

I should preface this with the belief that new 4cyls are more than powerful enough and a well tuned turbo can give diesel like performance.

It depends on what you are going to use it for.

If it's towing a boat or caravan i would go for the one with a longer stroke they give good torque at cruising speeds, if it's for going fast one with a short stroke they will rev harder.

A turbo diesel will give excellent torque for towing they don't have high redline so not really suited for redlining it all the time.

Less than 2 L capacity then the 4 anything bigger i would go the V6 or straight 6. If it's a V motor it really needs twin turbos for best results.

I wouldn't buy anything with a turbo they need 98 fuel sometimes it can be hard to get in remote areas. Fuel goes off with age when you open jerry can for mowers etc and hear noise that's all the high octane aromatics bleeding off. Always buy fuel from servos that have good turnover for fresh fuel.

Subaru sell a can of upper engine cleaner ($20) to decarbon intake and combustion chamber they use it every service with WRX. Turbos get more carbon buildup because they run rich on boost which causes problems with detonation if not cleaned out the carbon buildup on pistons becomes incandescent when you give it a thrash. Having rebuilt numerous engines the carbon buildup on piston skirts matches wear pattern in bores. The CC pressures are higher with turbos so more blow by past piston rings the black carbon buildup below piston rings on skirts happens because of this. The Subaru engine cleaner is good stuff it brings all alloys back to bright shiny like new i put it through all the engines i have.

A bigger engine will last longer with cruising you don't have to rev it as hard to get moving a smaller engine that needs to be revved harder isn't going to last as long.

Thanks.
I've used Nulon fuel additive. It seemed very good

[Valkie]

Technology has moved forward over the years and a lot of the old rules no longer apply.

Once cubes made the difference.
But then we had carburetors and they were far from perfect.

With technology getting an exact mix at the right time has made a world of difference.
Turbos have done wonders for performance and power.

The old rule (when I was a lad) was that the more cylinders the smoother the engine.
But my new MUX is smother than any vehicle (diesel or petrol) than I have driven in the last 25 years.
Yes it vibrates a bit at idle (its a diesel man)
But at 100 to 130kph you cannot hear or feel it, unless you give it a bit of stick.

They now have 2.0 litre diesels that can tow 3500 kg

[sprintcyclist]

Technology has moved forward over the years and a lot of the old rules no longer apply.

Once cubes made the difference.
But then we had carburetors and they were far from perfect.

With technology getting an exact mix at the right time has made a world of difference.
Turbos have done wonders for performance and power.

The old rule (when I was a lad) was that the more cylinders the smoother the engine.
But my new MUX is smother than any vehicle (diesel or petrol) than I have driven in the last 25 years.
Yes it vibrates a bit at idle (its a diesel man)
But at 100 to 130kph you cannot hear or feel it, unless you give it a bit of stick.

They now have 2.0 litre diesels that can tow 3500 kg

Wow - that is suprising.

Look at the new Mazda petrol 2.5T specs.

..... Torque, lb ft 310 lb-ft (420 Nm)/ 2,000 .......

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=97

420 Nm at 2000 rpm, it's a 4 cylinder turbo petrol with diesel like characteristics.

[Trevor P]

But still the same issue that you are trying to make more HP with less CI so are bound to be straining parts a lot harder than a larger displacement engine.

[Valkie]

Technology has moved forward over the years and a lot of the old rules no longer apply.

Once cubes made the difference.
But then we had carburetors and they were far from perfect.

With technology getting an exact mix at the right time has made a world of difference.
Turbos have done wonders for performance and power.

The old rule (when I was a lad) was that the more cylinders the smoother the engine.
But my new MUX is smother than any vehicle (diesel or petrol) than I have driven in the last 25 years.
Yes it vibrates a bit at idle (its a diesel man)
But at 100 to 130kph you cannot hear or feel it, unless you give it a bit of stick.

They now have 2.0 litre diesels that can tow 3500 kg

Wow - that is suprising.

Look at the new Mazda petrol 2.5T specs.

..... Torque, lb ft 310 lb-ft (420 Nm)/ 2,000 .......

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=97

420 Nm at 2000 rpm, it's a 4 cylinder turbo petrol with diesel like characteristics.

As an engineer, working with underground diesel equipment for over 2 decades, I still feel that there are longevity issues with small diesels.
You can bet, if it were possible to use a smaller, more fuel efficient diesel in underground equipment, it woukd have been done already.
But this is not the case

Underground equipment has many restrictions and requirements above a road going vehicle.
For instance no part of the equipment can reach temperatures over 180 Dec c
This presents huge issues which must be overcome
Exhausts have to be water jacketed
Turbos have to be water jacketed
The exhaust is piped through a water "scrubber" the main purpose of which is to prevent flames making it to the atmosphere.
And they are often de-tuned thereby preventing the engine working hard and heating up beyond its ability to cool.

What I'm saying is, that with all these additions, the engine cannot work to it's ideal and must therefore be larger just to get the job done.
A smaller engine could not cut it.

There is also the way these machines are used is obscene.
They are thrashed to writhing an inch of their lives and are still expected to perform for the life of the equipment.

Road vehicles are subject to less requirements, but that's changing.
They also are rarely thrashed to death, well not for long.
Most of the towing is managed by the superior gear boxes we now have.
More gears, better management, more intuitive and more robust.

But when push comes to shove.
A larger engine will last longer and perform better.

Hence the MUX 3.0 litre 4 cylinder turbo charged diesel.
The same engine used in the Isuzu 8 ton trucks (detuned)

Some of the other 4x4s use re-engineered petrol engines converted to diesel.
These will not have a long life, of that I'm certian.

[sprintcyclist]

Technology has moved forward over the years and a lot of the old rules no longer apply.

Once cubes made the difference.
But then we had carburetors and they were far from perfect.

With technology getting an exact mix at the right time has made a world of difference.
Turbos have done wonders for performance and power.

The old rule (when I was a lad) was that the more cylinders the smoother the engine.
But my new MUX is smother than any vehicle (diesel or petrol) than I have driven in the last 25 years.
Yes it vibrates a bit at idle (its a diesel man)
But at 100 to 130kph you cannot hear or feel it, unless you give it a bit of stick.

They now have 2.0 litre diesels that can tow 3500 kg

Wow - that is suprising.

Look at the new Mazda petrol 2.5T specs.

..... Torque, lb ft 310 lb-ft (420 Nm)/ 2,000 .......

https://www.motorreviewer.com/engine.php?engine_id=97

420 Nm at 2000 rpm, it's a 4 cylinder turbo petrol with diesel like characteristics.

As an engineer, working with underground diesel equipment for over 2 decades, I still feel that there are longevity issues with small diesels.
You can bet, if it were possible to use a smaller, more fuel efficient diesel in underground equipment, it woukd have been done already.
But this is not the case

Underground equipment has many restrictions and requirements above a road going vehicle.
For instance no part of the equipment can reach temperatures over 180 Dec c
This presents huge issues which must be overcome
Exhausts have to be water jacketed
Turbos have to be water jacketed
The exhaust is piped through a water "scrubber" the main purpose of which is to prevent flames making it to the atmosphere.
And they are often de-tuned thereby preventing the engine working hard and heating up beyond its ability to cool.

What I'm saying is, that with all these additions, the engine cannot work to it's ideal and must therefore be larger just to get the job done.
A smaller engine could not cut it.

There is also the way these machines are used is obscene.
They are thrashed to writhing an inch of their lives and are still expected to perform for the life of the equipment.

Road vehicles are subject to less requirements, but that's changing.
They also are rarely thrashed to death, well not for long.
Most of the towing is managed by the superior gear boxes we now have.
More gears, better management, more intuitive and more robust.

But when push comes to shove.
A larger engine will last longer and perform better.

Hence the MUX 3.0 litre 4 cylinder turbo charged diesel.
The same engine used in the Isuzu 8 ton trucks (detuned)

Some of the other 4x4s use re-engineered petrol engines converted to diesel.
These will not have a long life, of that I'm certian.

Thanks Valkie, I do appreciate your comments

[Valkie]

In saying all that.

I drive a 21 year old Toyota echo as my run around toy.
More dings and scrapes than you can imagine, the paint is peeling (as Toyatas do) but mechanically its perfect.
(none of the scratches or dings are mine, its why i got it so cheap)
260000 on the clock and still runs sweet, even the air-conditioner works perfectly.

I did the brakes and exhaust system when I bought it, rebuilt the front suspension and did a little work to make the engine run smoother.
Apart from that, its stock 1.5 litre engine.
I'd have no qualms about driving it to Queensland and back.

My wife has a new 1.2 litre Suzuki Ignis,
I was dubious at first, not even turbocharged.
But we have driven to Canberra a few times and to Coffs Harbour at least 9 times.
Never missed a beat, sits comfortable on 120kph and gets 5.0 l/100k, fully packed.
How long will it last? I couldn't guess.
But at 110 on a flat road its ambling along under 2000 rpm whereas my Echo is doing 3000 rpm.

My MUX is the workhorse, bought it new about 2 years ago, only got 60000k on the clock so far.
Tows the 2 ton boat with out even feeling it.
Heavy as shite to maneuver around, not a vehicle for zipping from place to place, and with the racking and such, cant get into many car parks.
Will eventually tow a 2.5 ton van when I can travel.
Gets around 7l/100k on the freeway unloaded and about 12l/100k with the boat.
My old xtrail used 19l/100k towing the boat.

Different cars for different purposes.
Different engines for different jobs

[Valkie]

In saying all that.

I drive a 21 year old Toyota echo as my run around toy.
More dings and scrapes than you can imagine, the paint is peeling (as Toyatas do) but mechanically its perfect.
(none of the scratches or dings are mine, its why i got it so cheap)
260000 on the clock and still runs sweet, even the air-conditioner works perfectly.

I did the brakes and exhaust system when I bought it, rebuilt the front suspension and did a little work to make the engine run smoother.
Apart from that, its stock 1.5 litre engine.
I'd have no qualms about driving it to Queensland and back.

My wife has a new 1.2 litre Suzuki Ignis,
I was dubious at first, not even turbocharged.
But we have driven to Canberra a few times and to Coffs Harbour at least 9 times.
Never missed a beat, sits comfortable on 120kph and gets 5.0 l/100k, fully packed.
How long will it last? I couldn't guess.
But at 110 on a flat road its ambling along under 2000 rpm whereas my Echo is doing 3000 rpm.

My MUX is the workhorse, bought it new about 2 years ago, only got 60000k on the clock so far.
Tows the 2 ton boat with out even feeling it.
Heavy as shite to maneuver around, not a vehicle for zipping from place to place, and with the racking and such, cant get into many car parks.
Will eventually tow a 2.5 ton van when I can travel.
Bloody covid came on when I retired, pain in the arse.
Gets around 7l/100k on the freeway unloaded and about 12l/100k with the boat.
My old xtrail used 19l/100k towing the boat.

Different cars for different purposes.
Different engines for different jobs

[sprintcyclist]

In saying all that.

I drive a 21 year old Toyota echo as my run around toy.
More dings and scrapes than you can imagine, the paint is peeling (as Toyatas do) but mechanically its perfect.
(none of the scratches or dings are mine, its why i got it so cheap)
260000 on the clock and still runs sweet, even the air-conditioner works perfectly.

I did the brakes and exhaust system when I bought it, rebuilt the front suspension and did a little work to make the engine run smoother.
Apart from that, its stock 1.5 litre engine.
I'd have no qualms about driving it to Queensland and back.

My wife has a new 1.2 litre Suzuki Ignis,
I was dubious at first, not even turbocharged.
But we have driven to Canberra a few times and to Coffs Harbour at least 9 times.
Never missed a beat, sits comfortable on 120kph and gets 5.0 l/100k, fully packed.
How long will it last? I couldn't guess.
But at 110 on a flat road its ambling along under 2000 rpm whereas my Echo is doing 3000 rpm.

My MUX is the workhorse, bought it new about 2 years ago, only got 60000k on the clock so far.
Tows the 2 ton boat with out even feeling it.
Heavy as shite to maneuver around, not a vehicle for zipping from place to place, and with the racking and such, cant get into many car parks.
Will eventually tow a 2.5 ton van when I can travel.
Gets around 7l/100k on the freeway unloaded and about 12l/100k with the boat.
My old xtrail used 19l/100k towing the boat.

Different cars for different purposes.
Different engines for different jobs

Good specs, thanks.

With the Ignis economy you would not dream of getting a diesel.

That is great economy with the MUX and towing a boat. Very impressive.
Had not thought of those being a handful around town. So it is really built for 'heavy' work?

Was the X-trail a 2.5 petrol, 6 speed auto? Was it easier around town?
I suppose if it is not used for towing often, might accept that ?