The Next Step - The Whitewashing of Communism

[Black Orchid]

Wikipedia may delete entry on ‘mass killings’ under Communism due to claims of bias.

A Wikipedia entry detailing “mass killings under Communist regimes” faces being purged from the platform over fears about bias.

The page outlining the deaths of millions in one-party states including the Soviet Union and China has been flagged for deletion, with some users responsible for maintaining the site taking issue with blaming mass murder on Communist ideology.

The dedicated entry listing the actions of figures like Stalin, Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Kim Jong Il has been accused of putting forward a biased “anti-Communist” point of view, and site administrators will decide whether it should be removed.

The future of a page titled “Anti-communist mass killings” is not in doubt, however, as the entry outlining occasions on which Communists have been killed under other poltical systems has not been flagged over concerns about neutrality.

A heading on Wikipedia’s article on mass killing under Communsit regimes currently states “The neutrality of this article is disputed”, and “this article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy”.

‘As bad as Holocaust denial’
The page mentions crimes against humanity including Stalin’s man-made famine in the Ukraine, the Great Purge, the killing of kulaks (prosperous peasants), and the imprisonment of millions in the Gulag system.

Mao’s policies including the Great Leap Forward, which caused a famine which may have caused the deaths of up to 20 million people, is also explored with numerous citations on the page, along with the Killing Fields of Cambodia.

Excess deaths under regimes in Cuba, Yugoslavia, Romania, East Germany and North Korea are also cited, with numerous sources provided.

But one proponent of deleting the page has stated on Wikipedia’s discussion page that “the view that the ideology of communism is somehow inherently violent is … anti-communist [point of view] pushing”.

Another supporter of deletion claims the entry on the deaths under Communism, estimated by some historians to be in the region of 100 million people, should not resort to “simplistic presuppositions that events are driven by any specific ideology”.

‘This is morally indefensible’
It has also been argued by one of the host of users who update and maintain Wikipedia that the page on mass killings under Communist regimes “is enabling a narrative and supports some fringe ideas about history”.

The proposed deletion of the page of crimes under Communism has been criticised, with Cambridge historian Prof Robert Tombs arguing that downplaying the connection between genocide and ideology would also prevent the teaching of crimes under Facsism and colonialism

He said: “This is morally indefensible, at least as bad as Holocaust denial, because 'linking ideology and killing' is the very core of why these things are important.

“I have read the Wikipedia page, and it seems to me careful and balanced. Therefore attempts to remove it can only be ideologically motivated – to whitewash Communism.

“Already, this appalling history is downplayed: in Britain, schoolchildren are much more likely to study the Third Reich than the Soviet Union.

‘Murdered more than 100 million’
Cliff May, director of the Federation for the Defense of Democracies, said: “The Communist regimes of the world – the Soviet Union, the Peoples Republic of China, Cambodia, North Korea and others – murdered more than 100 million people.

“Those who attempt to erase this long and terrible history of criminality should be seen as accomplices after the fact, paving the way for more tyranny in the future.”

Some proponents of deleting the page claim that by combining different elements of research to create a “synthesis”, this constitutes original research and therefore breaches Wikipedia rules.

An administrator will decide, on the basis of arguments for and against which have been put forward by users, whether the page will be deleted.

Wikipedia has been contacted for comment.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/wi ... np1taskbar

And the purge continues. Apparently now it's anti-communist to correctly portray history. It's not being 'neutral.'

[Crackey]

....... The page outlining the deaths of millions in one-party states including the Soviet Union and China has been flagged for deletion, with some users responsible for maintaining the site taking issue with blaming mass murder on Communist ideology .....

This I can understand. We should all, by now, know that the destruction of the Democratic government of Iran was orchestrated by the US upon UK request. We know that the American (and Australian) invasion, occupation and war in Vietnam was illegal and was perpetrated with the express purpose of thwarting the country's post-colonial Democratic elections. The US also illegally invaded Grenada, aided the Fascist government of Chile, as well as a great number of Latin American nations ..... not least Cuba. It ought to be common knowledge that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was "justified" with the outright lie of weapons of mass destruction and therefore the million men, women, and children who were tortured and murdered ...... were innocent. Julian Assange is now in his 10th. year of imprisonment without charge or having committed any crime at all, and Edward Snowden is in exile.

I am waiting to hear someone blame all of that on Democratic ideology. Any takers?

[Bogan]

To Crackey. I'll take.

Before white western people invented the internal combustion engine and invented cars, aeroplanes, and diesel locomotives, the Ignorant Iranians had no use for oil except where natural gas fissures had accidently caught alight, creating perpetual fires from the rocks which the Iranians thought was holy. The British and Americans invented geology, oil drilling technology, and refineries. They used geology to find oil in Iran. They built oil wells and refineries in Iran giving locals jobs and creating prosperity.. The elected leader of Iran campaigned on a platform of stealing the British and UK property, which was very popular among the low IQ people of Iran. And you wonder why they deposed this elected thief?

The elected leader of Chile (Allende) campaigned on a platform of nationalising (stealing) the means of production, which made him (Like Hugo Chavez) wildly popular among the low IQ population of Chile. This meant stealing US owned factories. The US only had to wait until the socialists do what they always do, make a complete mess of everything, and then it supported the Chilean armed forces in it's coup against Allende. The local Chelean businessmen sat on the balcony of the Chilean stock exchange drinking champaign while the Chilean jets bombed the palace and killed Allende. Why you think that is bad is beyond me?

The Americans got involved in Vietnam because the Military Industrial complex had got too strong and after assassinating their own President they embarked upon a religious crusade to stop communism. I admit, it was a stupid thing to do. But you only have to look at North Vietnam today to see what Vietnam might have become if the Vietnamese communists were as dumb as the North Vietnamese.

The US invaded Grenada after the elected communist leader was assassinated by a gang of hard core criminals and then sent around the death squads. The people of Grenada cheered on the US forces when the US correctly invaded. What your problem is with that, I don't know?

The US invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein said he had weapons of mas destruction, played shell games with UN inspectors, and held aloft for the international media a device used for triggering nuclear bombs. He also kept pulling the US's beard by breaking sanctions and lighting up US warplanes with AA missile radars. There is only one culprit for that war it was a psychopath called Saddam Hussein.

As for Julian Assange, there seems to be a section of western society who hate the very civilisation that they choose to live in. Treason is now a fashion statement among these peculiar people. Assange is not a nice man. He skipped bail costing his own supporters a considerable amount of money and then took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, who got fed up of his narcisistic histrionics too. I laugh at his troubles today, and think that by committing treason against the west he got what he deserved. Same for that traitor Snowden. He can wallow in Russian civilisation just like his fellow traitors, Philby, Burgiss, and Maclean.

[Bogan]

To Crackey. I'll take.

Before white western people invented the internal combustion engine and invented cars, aeroplanes, and diesel locomotives, the Ignorant Iranians had no use for oil except where natural gas fissures had accidently caught alight, creating perpetual fires from the rocks which the Iranians thought was holy. The British and Americans invented geology, oil drilling technology, and refineries. They used geology to find oil in Iran. They built oil wells and refineries in Iran giving locals jobs and creating prosperity.. The elected leader of Iran campaigned on a platform of stealing the British and UK property, which was very popular among the low IQ people of Iran. And you wonder why they deposed this elected thief?

The elected leader of Chile (Allende) campaigned on a platform of nationalising (stealing) the means of production, which made him (Like Hugo Chavez) wildly popular among the low IQ population of Chile. This meant stealing US owned factories. The US only had to wait until the socialists do what they always do, make a complete mess of everything, and then it supported the Chilean armed forces in it's coup against Allende. The local Chelean businessmen sat on the balcony of the Chilean stock exchange drinking champaign while the Chilean jets bombed the palace and killed Allende. Why you think that is bad is beyond me?

The Americans got involved in Vietnam because the Military Industrial complex had got too strong and after assassinating their own President they embarked upon a religious crusade to stop communism. I admit, it was a stupid thing to do. But you only have to look at North Vietnam today to see what Vietnam might have become if the Vietnamese communists were as dumb as the North Vietnamese.

The US invaded Grenada after the elected communist leader was assassinated by a gang of hard core criminals and then sent around the death squads. The people of Grenada cheered on the US forces when the US correctly invaded. What your problem is with that, I don't know?

The US invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein said he had weapons of mas destruction, played shell games with UN inspectors, and held aloft for the international media a device used for triggering nuclear bombs. He also kept pulling the US's beard by breaking sanctions and lighting up US warplanes with AA missile radars. There is only one culprit for that war it was a psychopath called Saddam Hussein.

As for Julian Assange, there seems to be a section of western society who hate the very civilisation that they choose to live in. Treason is now a fashion statement among these peculiar people. Assange is not a nice man. He skipped bail costing his own supporters a considerable amount of money and then took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, who got fed up of his narcisistic histrionics too. I laugh at his troubles today, and think that by committing treason against the west he got what he deserved. Same for that traitor Snowden. He can wallow in Russian civilisation just like his fellow traitors, Philby, Burgiss, and Maclean.

[Crackey]

To Crackey. I'll take.

Before white western people invented the internal combustion engine and invented cars, aeroplanes, and diesel locomotives, the Ignorant Iranians had no use for oil except where natural gas fissures had accidently caught alight, creating perpetual fires from the rocks which the Iranians thought was holy. The British and Americans invented geology, oil drilling technology, and refineries. They used geology to find oil in Iran. They built oil wells and refineries in Iran giving locals jobs and creating prosperity.. The elected leader of Iran campaigned on a platform of stealing the British and UK property, which was very popular among the low IQ people of Iran. And you wonder why they deposed this elected thief?

The elected leader of Chile (Allende) campaigned on a platform of nationalising (stealing) the means of production, which made him (Like Hugo Chavez) wildly popular among the low IQ population of Chile. This meant stealing US owned factories. The US only had to wait until the socialists do what they always do, make a complete mess of everything, and then it supported the Chilean armed forces in it's coup against Allende. The local Chelean businessmen sat on the balcony of the Chilean stock exchange drinking champaign while the Chilean jets bombed the palace and killed Allende. Why you think that is bad is beyond me?

The Americans got involved in Vietnam because the Military Industrial complex had got too strong and after assassinating their own President they embarked upon a religious crusade to stop communism. I admit, it was a stupid thing to do. But you only have to look at North Vietnam today to see what Vietnam might have become if the Vietnamese communists were as dumb as the North Vietnamese.

The US invaded Grenada after the elected communist leader was assassinated by a gang of hard core criminals and then sent around the death squads. The people of Grenada cheered on the US forces when the US correctly invaded. What your problem is with that, I don't know?

The US invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein said he had weapons of mas destruction, played shell games with UN inspectors, and held aloft for the international media a device used for triggering nuclear bombs. He also kept pulling the US's beard by breaking sanctions and lighting up US warplanes with AA missile radars. There is only one culprit for that war it was a psychopath called Saddam Hussein.

As for Julian Assange, there seems to be a section of western society who hate the very civilisation that they choose to live in. Treason is now a fashion statement among these peculiar people. Assange is not a nice man. He skipped bail costing his own supporters a considerable amount of money and then took refuge in the Ecuadorian embassy, who got fed up of his narcisistic histrionics too. I laugh at his troubles today, and think that by committing treason against the west he got what he deserved. Same for that traitor Snowden. He can wallow in Russian civilisation just like his fellow traitors, Philby, Burgiss, and Maclean.

Normally I respond point for point but there is so much crock in your post that I don't know where to begin or if it's even worth the bother. Anyone who claims, "The US invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein said he had weapons of mas destruction, played shell games with UN inspectors" isn't earnest enough for me wasting my time trying reasoning with. I don't know where you get your information but it looks as though you switched off your ears the moment the US began illegally strafing Bagdhad. I mean for Christ's sake how can you dare write such rubbish and post it?

Saddam DID NOT "say he had weapons of mass destruction" nor did he "play shell games with UN inspectors". Would you like to know more about that or are your ears nailed shut?

Your comments on Iran, Vietnam, Grenada, and Chile are equally misguided. Then there are your comments about Julian Assange and I can see you have no idea what "treason" means and as far as him "skipping bail" I presume you are referring to the crime he never committed, was never charged with, and had proof that he was innocent from square one as there was no victim in the first place.

[Bogan]

To Cracky.

I said that Saddam Hussein "played shell games" with UN inspectors because I saw on TV, with my own eyes, the interview with Australia's UN inspector, Richard Butler, who had been sent into Iraq to find WMD. He told on TV how he and his team had been frustrated at every turn by the Hussein regime. He recounted a story about how he and his team had learned that WMD were being hidden in a particular Baghdad warehouse. When he and his team got there, they saw a number of semi trailers, all loaded up and with tarpaulins over the load, about to leave the premises. When Butler and his team attempted to look under the tarpaulins, Saddam's guards pointed AK 47's at them in a threatening way, and ordered them to back off.

While the inspectors were being threatened and given the run around, Saddam Hussein showed the assembled international press core a device not unlike an old TV valve, with a "look what I got" smirk on his face. Experts on nuclear weaponry identified it as a scientific device of such accuracy that it is used to trigger nuclear weapons. This device was on a banned list for fruitcake countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Iraq. I saw Hussein hold up that device on TV with my own eyes.

After making the US believe that he did indeed posses either WMD or the means to obtain them, the USA then declared it's intention to invade and take the damned things off that psychopathic idiot. He then declared that, heh heh, I wuz just kidding, I don't have them after all. On the fairly accurate assumption that anything Saddam ever said was a lie, the yanks did not believe him.

I have no idea where you get your information from, but I suspect it is just whatever gossip your peers tell you in the wine bar.

I repeat. There was only one fool responsible for the invasion of Iraq by coalition forces, and that was that prize goof and psychopath, Saddam Hussein.

[Crackey]

To Cracky.

I said that Saddam Hussein "played shell games" with UN inspectors because I saw on TV, with my own eyes, the interview with Australia's UN inspector, Richard Butler, who had been sent into Iraq to find WMD. He told on TV how he and his team had been frustrated at every turn by the Hussein regime. He recounted a story about how he and his team had learned that WMD were being hidden in a particular Baghdad warehouse. When he and his team got there, they saw a number of semi trailers, all loaded up and with tarpaulins over the load, about to leave the premises. When Butler and his team attempted to look under the tarpaulins, Saddam's guards pointed AK 47's at them in a threatening way, and ordered them to back off.

While the inspectors were being threatened and given the run around, Saddam Hussein showed the assembled international press core a device not unlike an old TV valve, with a "look what I got" smirk on his face. Experts on nuclear weaponry identified it as a scientific device of such accuracy that it is used to trigger nuclear weapons. This device was on a banned list for fruitcake countries like Iran, Syria, North Korea, and Iraq. I saw Hussein hold up that device on TV with my own eyes.

After making the US believe that he did indeed posses either WMD or the means to obtain them, the USA then declared it's intention to invade and take the damned things off that psychopathic idiot. He then declared that, heh heh, I wuz just kidding, I don't have them after all. On the fairly accurate assumption that anything Saddam ever said was a lie, the yanks did not believe him.

Mostly bull shit. Do you want just the surface facts or all of the details too? I can give you both.

1). The US claimed to have "proof" of WMD's in Iraq. Their "proof" was faked, falsified, and concocted depending upon what "fact" you'd like debunked.

2). Saddam concluded that the inspection was saturated with CIA spies with the obvious mission to plant false evidence. The UN followed the leads and found that it was true.

3). The UN put together a second (non-CIA) inspection team headed by Hans Blix.

4). This new team was given access to all of the 12 sites the Yanks claimed WMD's were stashed.

5). Eleven of the twelve were inspected but no WMD's were found.

6). Just as the inspection team was about to inspect the twelfth and final sight the US told everyone to pull out because the bombing was starting ..... NOW!

FYI: The UN had told Saddam that he must demolish all of his WMD's or suffer "severe consequences". Irak did demolish all of its WMD's and both Saddam Hussein and Tariq Aziz said so. What they said was true just in case you were asleep when it was proven to be true.

I have no idea where you get your information from, but I suspect it is just whatever gossip your peers tell you in the wine bar.

Gosh! Sorry! I don't have any quotes from "Australia's UN inspector, Richard Butler". All I have are written quotes plus a recorded interview with Hans Blix himself. You know. the head of the UN inspection team. How's your crow tasting? Does it need a sweetener?

[Bogan]

You are asking me to ignore the evidence of my own ears when I watched a program on TV, where an Australian UN inspector, who's job it was to find WMD, told the interviewer how he and his team were prevented from doing their job by Saddam Hussein's thugs. You are asking me to ignore the evidence of my own eyes when I saw on TV, that bloodthirsty psychopathic madman, Saddam Hussein, hold up a nuclear triggering device for the camera with a "Look what I got!" sneer on his face, while around him his generals giggled for the cameras.

The invasion of Iraq could have been completely avoided if that prize goof Hussein had simply abided by the terms of the ceasefire. But being an Arab idiot who's ego could not let him lose face, he did everything he could to provoke the Americans and make them think that he had not destroyed his WMD. When the US finally had enough of his games, and announced that they intended to invade, Hussein realised that he had provoked the US too much and it was only at that point that he claimed that he had destroyed his WMD.

I remember one US official who had been exasperated by Saddam's years of lying, provoking, and sanctions busting, "Now he his saying that the dog ate his homework."

You are inferring that Richard Butler and his team were CIA spies. It would not matter if they had been. If Saddam did not want to be removed from office forcibly, all he had to do was comply with the US demands and accede to the UN inspectors directions. But his ego prevented him from ever doing that. He had invaded Kuwait because he thought that the Americans were all like you, unwilling to get into a real fight and ready to believe anything. He portrayed himself to his Arab fellaheen admirers as a real Real Man who knew how to call the US's bluff, and who was not afraid to fight the USA in a real war if push came to shove.

Big mistake.

As for this supposed second team of UN inspectors, I would put as much credence on what they said as I did when the UN WHO team went to China and found no link between covid-19 and the Chinese biological weapons lab in Wuhan.

I know that you have been brainwashed into thinking that the USA is the reincarnation of Nazi Germany, and that it just decided to invade Iraq for the fun of it. It has never occurred to you that there could be a valid alternative explanation. Now that another poster has put you right, I can tell by your emotional and sarcastic reply that it has really shook you up. For too long you just accepted the narrative of whatever lies the socialist left dreamed up without question. Now that you are being told the truth, you are having real trouble accepting it. Because by accepting it, it would mean that you would begin to understand how the socialist left has fooled you with lies for years.

And that would be a particularly unpleasant piece of crow to eat.

[Crackey]

You are asking me to ignore the evidence of my own ears when I watched a program on TV .....

Your brain is already on "ignore" why not your ears too?

You are inferring that Richard Butler .... were CIA spies. .......

As I said, your brain is already on "ignore" and you are prone to making absurd conclusions as well, I see.

Just carry on. The facts don't pay you any mind.

[Bogan]

I see that you are an early riser, Crackey.

Your petulant and childish response to my well reasoned reply clearly displays that you are under some emotional strain. Being confronted with an alternative viewpoint which makes real sense must have really shocked you? For too long, you were of the opinion that "intelligent" people thought in a particular, woke way. And all you had to do to display how intelligent you were was to parrot the lines that had been prepared for you by others. I predict that since I have obviously rattled you, you will now leave the arena, throwing insults and sneers as you exit with your tail between your legs.

However, it you can still man up, I am prepared to be patient with you and do my best to deprogram you from whatever leftist lies you have swallowed over the years, thinking that it is absolute truth. Failing that, I would advise to to go to some left wing echo chamber like Brian Ross's "Debate and Relate" (if it has not collapsed already through sheer boredom) or "New Matilda", another left wing echo chamber where they do not tolerate opposing viewpoints.