The Unions in Australia

Australian Federal, State and Local Politics
Forum rules
Don't poop in these threads. This isn't Europe, okay? There are rules here!
Post Reply
User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

The Unions in Australia

Post by brian ross » Mon Jan 06, 2020 1:21 pm

Unionism has had it's ups and it's downs over the decades since the inception of the first unions in the 1890s. Unionism has created the first political party in Australia - the Australian Labor Party. Unions generally do a good job by their members. They look after their welfare and their families, they try and organise their members to resist the downward drive of wages made by many large employers and the degradation of working conditions.

Now, Bogan has made a claim that the Unions worked actively against the war effort during WWII. He bases this on a book he has read (I wonder if Bogan has ever belong to the Electricians' Trade Union?) entitled Australia's Secret War by Hal Colebatch. I haven't read the book, I have to admit but in researching it, I did find the following article by the noted Australian War Historian, Peter Stanley who was forced out of his position as chief historian at the War Memorial because he upset the then PM John Howard with his "leftist" approach to history.
Australia's Secret (And Unhistorical) War
By Peter Stanley
Posted 11 Dec 2014, 2:38pm

Hal Colebatch's book claiming that Australian unions sabotaged their nation's war effort is deeply unsatisfactory. How did it win the Prime Minister's Prize for Australian History? Peter Stanley writes.

The award of the 2014 Prime Minister's Prize for Australian History jointly to Hal Colebatch for his book Australia's Secret War, which purports to show "How Unions Sabotaged Our Troops in World War II", has aroused both praise and condemnation.

Conservative columnists such as Miranda Devine and Andrew Bolt have applauded the book for supposedly telling us things about Australia's Second World War history that (they think) had been suppressed, while liberal commentators such as Rowan Cahill and history buffs on specialist websites have either roundly criticised Colebatch's book or questioned the veracity of his accounts.

Journalist and author Mike Carlton, whose account of the Sydney-Emden fight was a contender for the Prime Minister's prize but dipped out, has attacked Colebatch's book as a 'farrago', listing errors in detail.

The specialists who have looked into his versions of the events he cites have found many errors. For example, he claims that the pilfering (possibly by wharf labourers) of valves rendered a radar station inoperative and led to the loss of American bombers returning from a raid on Rabaul. On investigation, Colebatch got wrong at least the identity of the supposed radar unit, the type of aircraft involved, the air force to which they belonged and, indeed, whether the incident actually happened.

One commentator on a specialist website concluded that "hyperbole like 'sabotaging the war effort' in the Australian case suggests Colebatch is pushing his usual right-wing agenda". (The book is, indeed, published by Quadrant, the journal that has become increasingly right-wing as its cadre of writers age and sink into a furious, fulminating dotage.)

Colebatch may well be "pushing his usual right-wing agenda", though that does not necessarily mean it is bad history. There is no reason why writers should not be clear about their political orientation and intention: good history is ambidextrous. But writers also have an obligation to respect the practice of history as it is pursued in the western liberal empirical tradition, and that means above all that they should seek out diverse sources and consider and criticise them in the light of evidence that does not necessarily endorse or accord with a writer's starting assumptions.

Colebatch has left his starting assumptions and his conclusions untested.

He is on uncertain ground. His book seems to be based on little but secondary sources, and the only arguably 'primary' evidence he draws upon are the memories of veterans of the Second World War: though 60 or more years after the events he seeks to describe. This faith in the veracity of oral history (especially from men in their eighties or older) is touchingly naïve. It makes for striking and shocking stories but it does not necessarily produce reliable, verifiable, justifiable history.

Sadly, Colebatch appears not to have attempted to check any of the stories he was told, but has simply replicated them and on that basis constructed a narrative of Australia in the Second World War in which 'the unions' 'sabotaged' 'the war effort'. He fails to test any of his examples against available primary sources, either public - such as newspapers which are available thanks to the National Library's 'Trove' data base - or government or union archives. This does not prevent him from condemning 'unions' as a whole: a stance that explains the way conservative columnists have embraced his book.

While sceptical of Colebatch's approach on methodological, and not just ideological, grounds, I do not have the time to critique his book as a whole. Rather, my purpose is to test one aspect of his assertions against the kinds of primary sources that he did not use himself.

In two chapters on waterside unions, Colebatch retails a number of stories about the laziness, vandalism and malice of wharfies at ports all around Australia's coast. The Waterside-Workers' Federation are a particular target of his ire (though he does not seem to confront the awkward fact that while the union was dominated by 'Communists', between 1941 and 1945 the Communist Party of Australia was "the leading war party", whose officials strove to reduce industrial action and who supported more than most Australians the most vigorous prosecution of the war). While individual members of the union may well have lacked the ideological purity of their officials and may well have pilfered, struck and vandalised cargos, they were doing so in defiance of 'the union'. Colebatch never grapples with this fundamental conundrum.

One of the ports in which Colebatch claims wharfies impeded the loading of ships is Townsville, which in 1945 became the base for the logistic effort that took I Australian Corps - the 7th and 9th Divisions - from their camps on the Atherton tableland to Morotai and on to Borneo. In researching my book Tarakan: an Australian Tragedy, published in 1997, like Colebatch I too had veterans of the Tarakan campaign tell me that wharfies had impeded the loading of their ships. Unlike Colebatch, I sought to establish the basis of these claims (based on memories 50 years later) by checking contemporary sources - the records of the branch of the union specifically involved.

Here's what I found:
Many former soldiers recall their embarkation as marked by obstruction and inefficiency on the waterfront, and they remain bitter at what they regard as the wharfies' intransigence. Some believe that the wharfies went on strike even as the troops destined for Tarakan passed through Townsville. In contravention of AIF folklore, in early 1945 there was almost no industrial action among the north Queensland wharfies, and certainly no strike. The port of Townsville had found the transition from minor sugar port to major military base a difficult one. An American report on Australian ports in 1943 had identified shortcomings 'along the usual lines - low efficiency (40% of U.S. average) … stoppage of work at the slightest indication of rain, etc.' By 1945, however, new arrangements had been successful for some time.

The rapid increase in traffic following Operation Instruction No. 99 [the orders that sent the 9th Division to Tarakan] precipitated a fresh, if brief and minor, collision between two working cultures. Troops, accustomed to intensive bursts of effort, often involving danger and discomfort, expected loading to proceed swiftly and without regard to time or hazard. The wharfies, on the job literally for the long haul, worked according to long-established and hard-won practices which conceded little to wartime emergencies. They would not work in the rain, for instance, and enforced rigid demarcation agreements: the branch executive included an official significantly titled the 'Vigilance Officer', alert to breaches of awards and customary work practices. Despite these divergent approaches the wharfies agreed to train troops in the operation of winches and in handling cargo, and the two groups rubbed along better than might have been expected. The accelerated pace of embarkation in March 1945 did not lead to any dispute. The only friction appears to have occurred on the afternoon of Saturday 11 March, coincidentally as the Townsville branch of the Waterside Workers' Federation held its monthly meeting. Just as Comrades Marles and Kerby had proposed and seconded a motion that the correspondence be accepted (the branch's minutes suggest that members espoused communist principles and procedural rigour with equal fervour) Comrade J. Foreman burst into the Waterside Workers' Hall, telling the meeting that a dispute had erupted at the Jetty. True to their principles, Comrades McNamara and Khan moved that standing orders be suspended, and Foreman reported that his gang had been dismissed and replaced by 'solder labour' without explanation. It appeared that an officer had insisted on deploying troops to load a cargo even though a civilian gang was available, but negotiation forestalled any escalation of the dispute. Unease persisted, and when the US Army trans-Pacific transport, General H.W. Buttner, docked early in April, troops were held nearby in case of a dispute. That it did not develop owed more to the wharfies' restraint than the soldiers' tact. Allen Haines of the 2/7th Field Regiment recalled watching from the rail of the General H.W. Buttner as a 'loot' (a lieutenant) intimidated wharf labourers and organised working parties to load the boxes of unfused grenades which they had declined to handle. Apart from a minor dispute over the loading of sugar, a traditional issue in north Queensland ports and unconnected with the embarkation of the Oboe forces, no other industrial action occurred.
This account is very different to the sensational, but vague, accounts Colebatch offers, based on hearsay but unchecked against the primary evidence - available in the Waterside Workers' Federation records held in the Noel Butlin Archives at ANU.

There was indeed tension between two very different work cultures, but they worked together: there were no strikes. This case does nothing to support, and much to question, Colebatch's interpretation.

Colebatch's Australia's Secret War offers a dubious version of the industrial history of Australia in the Second World War. It is based on an inadequate range of sources. It fails to question the evidence of oral history. It presents a view of unions that is determinedly antagonistic and unsympathetic, and in failing to explain why 'unions' and their members might 'sabotage' their nation's war effort is deeply unsatisfactory.

It makes many mistakes, again because Colebatch fails to check his sources. He also fails to consult or quote secondary works (indeed, like my Tarakan) that would tend to modify or contest his interpretation. Whether such a book deserves the accolade of a prize awarded to published histories that meet the highest standards of the discipline is a question that must now be asked.

Professor Peter Stanley of UNSW Canberra is the president of Honest History. His book Bad Characters: Sex, Crime, Mutiny, Murder and the Australian Imperial Force was jointly awarded the Prime Minister's Prize for Australian History in 2011. View his full profile here.
[Source]

It appears that Bogan is basing his views on very, very, dubious research. Tsk, tsk. How typical of Bogan to live in a fantasy world fuelled by Conspiracies... :roll :roll
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

cods
Posts: 6433
Joined: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:52 am

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by cods » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:49 pm

so the people you choose to believe have perfect recall but not the other guy.... got it?


my little bit of understanding regarding the MIGHT of the wharfies..during the tough times..

was they refused to load the MAIL and or red cross boxes.........destined for the service men...

has it occured to you that John Howard sacked your favoured historian because he was not telling it how it happened.... :roll: :roll:


we know!!! I believe someone called Pascoe also thinks hes a historian.. even though its been proved by others he is not.

unless you call fudging the truth history that is..

Juliar
Posts: 1355
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2016 10:56 am

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by Juliar » Mon Jan 06, 2020 5:52 pm

BRossy as a hard core Greeny is supporting the almost dead unions with no members anymore. Then he always showed strange allegiance.

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25699
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by Black Orchid » Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:12 pm

Pacific War historian James Bowen, co-founder of the national Battle for Australia Commemoration, undertakes to prove that the former senior historian at the Australian War Memorial, Dr Peter Stanley, is promoting to young Australians a false history of 1942, their country's most perilous year, and impugning the character of Prime Minister John Curtin without historical justification.
https://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/ ... ists2.html
HOW DOES DR PETER STANLEY DENY THE GRAVITY OF THE JAPANESE THREAT TO AUSTRALIA IN 1942?
http://www.battleforaustralia.org/batta ... anley.html
PROVING THAT DR PETER STANLEY IS PROMOTING A FALSE HISTORY OF 1942

" It is time that Australians stopped kidding themselves that their country faced an actual invasion threat and looked seriously at their role in the Allied war effort". ... Dr Peter Stanley of the Australian War Memorial exposes his ignorance of Japan's plans to force Australia's surrender in 1942, and exposes his failure to understand the dynamics of the Pacific War. From his essay: "He's (not) coming South - the invasion that wasn't" (2002).

"It seems to be that Australians want to believe that they were part of a war, that the war came close; that it mattered...Set against the prosaic reality, the desire is poignant and rather pathetic." .... Australians may well think that this appalling comment by Dr Peter Stanley, former senior historian at the Australian War Memorial, diminishes and denigrates the sacrifices of those who fought to defend Australia against a grave threat from Japan in 1942 and insults Australians who honour those sacrifices. When he speaks dismissively of the deadly Japanese offensive against Australia in his essay

"Threat made manifest" (2005), Dr Stanley is arguing that the only battles that really mattered in World War II occurred over his English birthplace during the Battle of Britain and on the continent of Europe.
https://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/ ... ists2.html
HOW DOES THE AUSTRALIAN WAR MEMORIAL FALSELY DENY THE GRAVITY OF THE JAPANESE THREAT TO AUSTRALIA IN 1942?

"It seems to be that Australians want to believe that they were part of a war, that the war came close; that it mattered...Set against the prosaic reality, the desire is poignant and rather pathetic." ... In this insulting comment, Dr Peter Stanley of the Australian War Memorial speaks dismissively of Japan's deadly attacks on Australia in 1942 in his essay "Threat made manifest"

" It is time that Australians stopped kidding themselves that their country faced an actual invasion threat and looked seriously at their role in the Allied war effort". ... Dr Peter Stanley of the Australian War Memorial exposes his ignorance of Japan's plans to force Australia's surrender in 1942, and exposes his failure to understand the dynamics of the Pacific War. From his essay: "He's (not) coming South - the invasion that wasn't" (2002).

"Now, we are told, the Australian Militia and AIF who met and defeated the Japanese in Papua were the men who saved Australia".
Dr Peter Stanley scales new heights of offensiveness when in "Threat made manifest" he dismisses the grave threat that Japanese occupation of Port Moresby would pose for Australia and the achievement of the heavily outnumbered Australians who defeated the Japanese on the Kokoda Track. See "He was coming South-to compel Australia's surrender to Japan".

"The Battle for Australia..promotes relatively unimportant events close to Australia over important events far away.."
Perhaps reflecting his English birth and English view of World War II, Dr Peter Stanley dismisses the Battle of the Coral Sea, and the Kokoda and Guadalcanal campaigns as "relatively unimportant" despite the historical fact that the fate of Australia hung in the balance during these battles. This extract is from his paper "Was there a Battle for Australia" (2006).
https://www.pacificwar.org.au/battaust/ ... anley.html

I wouldn't place too much faith in Dr Peter Stanley. Talk about dubious research! :roll:

User avatar
Bogan
Posts: 948
Joined: Sat Aug 24, 2019 5:27 pm

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by Bogan » Mon Jan 06, 2020 7:21 pm

It's bit like 'The Bell Curve", Brian. If the unions in Australia were doing a great job supporting the troops then perhaps the Labor party will commission an author to prove that this was so? But they are not going to do that because they know that is just not true. Labor leaders who read Hao Colbech's book undoubtable cringed and relied upon the general ignorance of most Australians of their own history, just like they did with the so called "stolen generations" fantasy.

Anyone reading books about the war in the South West Pacific will come across references to the bloodymindedness and obstructions of the wharf labourers in particular. It has been a while since I read the book, but if I remember correctly, the Army had to called onto the wharves at times to keep vital war supplies moving forward. It was the bloodymindedness and selfishness of the unions which broke Curtain's heart. He could hardly believe that the worker's official organisations which he had championed all his life could actively work against the survival of their own country.

If anybody is interested in reading a fantastic book, read "Guadalcanal" by Richard B. Frank. The degree of self sacrificing heroism exhibited by the US Marines and the US Navy, Australian Navy, the USAAF, the Marines own air arm, and the Australian coastwatchers is just breathtaking. But before battle was joined, the US First Marines sailed from new Zealand with only half of their supplies, because the New Zealand wharfies refused to work in the rain. Compare the unbelievably heroic behaviour of patriots to the selfishness of socialists unionists.

Australia's Secret War is a great book to anyone who wishes to know how the left wing unions stabbed our country in the back during wartime.

User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by brian ross » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:24 pm

No denying that the wharfies were generally difficult to work with, Bogan. However, that was generally because those that attempted to dictate to them how they should work had never worked a hard day's work in their lives. Unloading or loading ships was generally done before the 1970s by hand, on the backs of workers. Workers who had a hard life and were often injured or worse, killed during those duties.

Wharfies weren't willing to work superfast when they were dealing with cargoes that they had little previous experience with. Outsiders didn't appreciate that and demanded they worker harder, faster when it was dangerous to do so. When handling explosives and vehicles, extreme caution was needed. The military was often called in but found that they lacked the skills to accomplish the tasks set for them, without the help of the Wharfies.

After the introduction of containerisation, generally the wharfies worked harder, because they could. However as Patricks discovered, that wasn't in their opinion fast enough and so we had the MUA dispute in 1998. That was when the employers tried to bring in scab labour. They were shown the short end of the stick in no uncertain terms. We saw the Police join with the Wharfies to refute the lies that were being told by the employers and the Government of the day under John Howard.

You can believe what you like - I know you will no matter what evidence is presented to you - but this book your quoting is based on the flimiest of evidence. Tsk. tsk. :roll:

My own experience with unions has been generally good. I don't doubt you've never been a member of a union, right, Bogan. How unsurprising. :roll:
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by brian ross » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:30 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:12 pm
I wouldn't place too much faith in Dr Peter Stanley. Talk about dubious research! :roll:
Having met Dr. Peter Stanley several times, I have a great deal more faith in his historical understanding than that of a fellow like Peter Bowen. Peter Stanley was the head historian at the War Memorial. He was also head historian at the Australian Museum. He has a great record of historical works behind him. Much more than Peter Bowen or Hal Colebatch, :roll :roll
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25699
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by Black Orchid » Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:42 pm

brian ross wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:12 pm
I wouldn't place too much faith in Dr Peter Stanley. Talk about dubious research! :roll:
Having met Dr. Peter Stanley several times, I have a great deal more faith in his historical understanding than that of a fellow like Peter Bowen. Peter Stanley was the head historian at the War Memorial. He was also head historian at the Australian Museum. He has a great record of historical works behind him. Much more than Peter Bowen or Hal Colebatch, :roll :roll
Stanley has a great number of dubious false claims to his name so no wonder you revere him. Whether you have met him or not is irrelevant and inconsequential. He is a revisionist like yourself.

User avatar
brian ross
Posts: 6059
Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:26 pm

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by brian ross » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:00 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:42 pm
brian ross wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:12 pm
I wouldn't place too much faith in Dr Peter Stanley. Talk about dubious research! :roll:
Having met Dr. Peter Stanley several times, I have a great deal more faith in his historical understanding than that of a fellow like Peter Bowen. Peter Stanley was the head historian at the War Memorial. He was also head historian at the Australian Museum. He has a great record of historical works behind him. Much more than Peter Bowen or Hal Colebatch, :roll :roll
Stanley has a great number of dubious false claims to his name so no wonder you revere him. Whether you have met him or not is irrelevant and inconsequential. He is a revisionist like yourself.
And Peter Bowen? What is he? How about Hal Colebatch? What do they base their claims on, Black Orchid? Mmmm?

Peter Stanley is a revisionist. All real historians are. It is how our knowledge of history is created. It doesn't just spring forth, fully formed, you realise? It has to be created, revised, recreated. Sometimes even discarded. :roll
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

User avatar
Black Orchid
Posts: 25699
Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:10 am

Re: The Unions in Australia

Post by Black Orchid » Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:02 pm

brian ross wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 9:00 pm
Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:42 pm
brian ross wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 8:30 pm
Black Orchid wrote:
Mon Jan 06, 2020 6:12 pm
I wouldn't place too much faith in Dr Peter Stanley. Talk about dubious research! :roll:
Having met Dr. Peter Stanley several times, I have a great deal more faith in his historical understanding than that of a fellow like Peter Bowen. Peter Stanley was the head historian at the War Memorial. He was also head historian at the Australian Museum. He has a great record of historical works behind him. Much more than Peter Bowen or Hal Colebatch, :roll :roll
Stanley has a great number of dubious false claims to his name so no wonder you revere him. Whether you have met him or not is irrelevant and inconsequential. He is a revisionist like yourself.
And Peter Bowen? What is he? How about Hal Colebatch? What do they base their claims on, Black Orchid? Mmmm?

Peter Stanley is a revisionist. All real historians are. It is how our knowledge of history is created. It doesn't just spring forth, fully formed, you realise? It has to be created, revised, recreated. Sometimes even discarded. :roll
You mean it has to be made up to suit? :rofl

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 23 guests