The impeachment inquiry

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Bogan
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Bogan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:26 am

Briney wrote

He did not win the popular election. Clinton gained ~3 million more votes than Trump. When you recognise that "manipulating the electoral process" refers to him winning purely on the Electoral College results which are not representational of what the American voters wanted. Tsk, tsk
There are differing types of democracies. Direct, proportional, representative, and presidential. In representative and presidential democracies, it goes without saying that legitimate governments can be formed from a minority of the total vote, because that is how these democracies work. Provided that the gap between the number of voters who did not vote for a minority government is not too large, people simply accept that as an inevitable consequence of their particular democratic process.

So what we see with Brian's comments is one of his usual double standards. When it was pointed out that in one election in Australia, One Nation voters who represented 12% of the electorate got no seats in parliament, while the Greens who only got 6% of the vote scored 4 seats, Brian defended this clear gerrymander, because the people disenfranchised were the people he despises.

But with Trump, his double standard goes the other way. That Trump won with a small minority of votes is presented by Brian as some sort of unfair gerrymander that de legitimises Trump as president.
Briney wrote

"el presidente"
It is funny how Brian is using a racist connotation which suggests that South American presidents are all illegitimate rulers. Careful Brian, you must be offending all South Americans with your inference that all their elected leaders are self evidently illegitimate. How can you be so racist, Brian?

Briney wrote

You're right, I don't agree with the Electoral College system. It denies the outcome of the popular vote which represents the wishes of the majority of voters. El Presidente' Trump exploited that and obviously doesn't care what the majority of voters wish had happened. Tsk, tsk. That you refuse to acknowledge what the majority of American voters sought in 2016 is IMHO despicable
.

Yet you refused to recognise the clear gerrymander which happened in Australia which saw 12% of One Nation supporters get no representation, while the Green party with half their votes got four seats in parliament. Your outrage is as usual, entirely selective, and a complete double standard.

Trump won the election and he is the President. Get over it.

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Bogan
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Bogan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:28 am

Is that really your picture Neferti? Hubba Hubba. You are definitely high quality breeding material.

Texan
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Texan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:41 am

Bogan wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 5:28 am
Is that really your picture Neferti? Hubba Hubba. You are definitely high quality breeding material.
I'm starting to see why Aussies are more serious about privacy than Americans.

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The Mechanic
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by The Mechanic » Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:59 am

brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:08 pm
The Mechanic wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:01 pm
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:14 pm
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploa ... smiley.jpg
The Mechanic wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:21 pm
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:02 pm


Oh, I agree. Trump however doesn't deserve to be el Presidente. He manipulated the electoral process in 2016. I don't doubt he will manipulate the electoral process in 2020. Always remember, he lost the popular election 2016 by nearly 3 million votes. :roll
Once again.. Lyin Brian caught out again with more lies..

You absolute Lyin Loser...

Any wonder you are considered the forum Dunce... :du
Image

Such a silly comment from a silly commentator, hey, Mechanic? Tsk, tsk. You're starting to sound like that Serial Liar mate of yours, Cereal Brains. :roll :roll
Game, Set and Match...

Lyin Brian (or as some say - Lyin Ross) has been exposed for lies and fake news...


Either put up or shut he **** up Lyin...

You made accusations... time to put up the PROOF or be known for eternity as a lyin FRONT BUM...

the ball is your court lyin...
Image

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Prove I have "knowingly told an untruth", Mechie? Or, like your mate, Cereal Brains, I will be forced to declare you are a "serial liar" as well. Here is your chance to quote where I have "lied" and provide a link to it:



If you run away, it will prove you're a serial liar, Mechie. As you have said, "the ball is in your court". :roll :roll
I"ve already proved you are liar ..

Trump didn't "manipulate" anything...

and you are just a flat-out lyin sore loser..

"IT WAS HILLARY'S TURN" :b
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man Q WWG1WGA ▄︻╦デ╤一

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brian ross
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by brian ross » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:30 am

The Mechanic wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:59 am
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:08 pm
The Mechanic wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:01 pm
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:14 pm
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploa ... smiley.jpg
The Mechanic wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:21 pm


Once again.. Lyin Brian caught out again with more lies..

You absolute Lyin Loser...

Any wonder you are considered the forum Dunce... :du
Image

Such a silly comment from a silly commentator, hey, Mechanic? Tsk, tsk. You're starting to sound like that Serial Liar mate of yours, Cereal Brains. :roll :roll
Game, Set and Match...

Lyin Brian (or as some say - Lyin Ross) has been exposed for lies and fake news...


Either put up or shut he **** up Lyin...

You made accusations... time to put up the PROOF or be known for eternity as a lyin FRONT BUM...

the ball is your court lyin...
Image

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Prove I have "knowingly told an untruth", Mechie? Or, like your mate, Cereal Brains, I will be forced to declare you are a "serial liar" as well. Here is your chance to quote where I have "lied" and provide a link to it:



If you run away, it will prove you're a serial liar, Mechie. As you have said, "the ball is in your court". :roll :roll
I"ve already proved you are liar ..
No you haven't. I defined what he manipulated. He used the screwy US electoral system to win the office of el Presidente'. He lost the popular vote. He was not the choice of the American people. Clinton received ~3 million more votes than Trump. She should have been el Presidente instead of Trump. QED.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

Texan
Posts: 2620
Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2019 12:50 pm

Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Texan » Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:39 am

brian ross wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:30 am
The Mechanic wrote:
Wed Jan 01, 2020 9:59 am
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:08 pm
The Mechanic wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:01 pm
brian ross wrote:
Tue Dec 31, 2019 6:14 pm
https://comicvine1.cbsistatic.com/uploa ... smiley.jpg

Image

Such a silly comment from a silly commentator, hey, Mechanic? Tsk, tsk. You're starting to sound like that Serial Liar mate of yours, Cereal Brains. :roll :roll
Game, Set and Match...

Lyin Brian (or as some say - Lyin Ross) has been exposed for lies and fake news...


Either put up or shut he **** up Lyin...

You made accusations... time to put up the PROOF or be known for eternity as a lyin FRONT BUM...

the ball is your court lyin...
Image

Oh, dearie, dearie, me. Prove I have "knowingly told an untruth", Mechie? Or, like your mate, Cereal Brains, I will be forced to declare you are a "serial liar" as well. Here is your chance to quote where I have "lied" and provide a link to it:



If you run away, it will prove you're a serial liar, Mechie. As you have said, "the ball is in your court". :roll :roll
I"ve already proved you are liar ..
No you haven't. I defined what he manipulated. He used the screwy US electoral system to win the office of el Presidente'. He lost the popular vote. He was not the choice of the American people. Clinton received ~3 million more votes than Trump. She should have been el Presidente instead of Trump. QED.
The Constitution and the Electoral College were negotiated by the original 13 states. The electoral college and the bicameral congress were put in place as assurances that the larger states could not ignore the will of the smaller states. If you want to get rid of the electoral college, it will require a Constitutional Amendment. The process is there. Of course, as a foreigner, you have no say in the matter. Just stay over there and whine for our entertainment.

Trump ran his campaign geared toward an electoral college win. Those are the rules of the election. If Hillary pursued the popular vote, she ran a stupid campaign. I guess that makes Trump smarter. He understood the rules and took advantage of them. He didn't cheat or break any rules.

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Black Orchid
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Black Orchid » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:12 am

To claim Trump "manipulated" the election is not only ignorant but totally Image

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Redneck
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Redneck » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:16 am

That is just the system they operate under Brian like it or lump it.

I prefer the Parliamentary system where the leader of the country is chosen from the members of the party which wins the most seats in the house of Reps. To me is seems less of a dictator role where the party in charge of the HOR can boot out a leader at any time if need be.

I think compulsory voting as in Australia is a good idea which forces people to get off their arses and participate in the elections, I gather in some countries like the UK that dont have this people are elected with really small number of votes due to voter apathy, that is not even bothering to vote.

I also think the Australian system of preferential voting is a good idea giving people who may like a fringe party (greens?) a second/third choice on who should win the seat. The winner is determined by the candidate who reaches over fifty percent after preference choices are taken into account if required. A lot of people dont like this method but I think its fairer especially where a lot of candidates are involved and again gets rid of someone being elected with a small percentage of the overall votes and also requires voters to think beyond their unelectable protest vote.

Anyway that's my view on the world!

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Black Orchid
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Black Orchid » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:31 am

If you understand how and why the Electoral College system was put into place you might see that it is the fairest system for the US population and the way it is distributed.

Compulsory voting ...
It's not really compulsory. You only get a $20 fine for not voting which would deter no-one.

Preferential voting ...
Gives way to too many shady back door deals between parties which are hardly ever transparent to the people prior to voting.

Party leader elected by their own party and not by the people ...
And both sides continually show that they can knife that leader on the whim of a few in the party with no regard to the people.

Neither system is perfect but I don't think ours is anything to crow about.

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Black Orchid
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Re: The impeachment inquiry

Post by Black Orchid » Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:50 am

Australia is almost the size of the US but 96% of our population lives on the coast. The population in the US is distributed more evenly throughout the whole country.

Imagine if just NSW and VIC held the majority of our population and by those terms dictated at the ballot box who was elected PM each time. The other states and territories would be screaming blue murder and would be demanding their equal rights to have a say in who was elected.

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