Australia's submarine fiasco
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Australia's submarine fiasco
Will ScoMo bite the bullet and fix up our subs ?
Our submarine fiasco explained
AMM 09/12/19.
Gary Johnston from Submarines For Australia says the reason America’s submarines are cheaper, nuclear, and are made faster is because Australia has been “dudded, right royally”.
Speaking to Sky News host Andrew Bolt, Mr Johnston said that it is a “farce” that the US will receive submarines seven years before Australia, despite a three year head start in the land Down Under.
“I have never in my life of business, have seen a worse deal that has ever been perpetrated by the government – and the government has had some bad deals,” Mr Johnston said.
“We’re a first world country, we need to demonstrate to the rest of the world we are a first world country… we have to abandon this silly diesel option.”
Source: Bolt Report, Sky News
VIDEO: Bolt Report sinks our subs http://morningmail.org/wp-content/uploa ... s.mp4?_=1
Leftist media saturates the news. Fight back. Send articles to your friends, politicians, local media, and facebook.
https://morningmail.org/our-submarine-f ... ore-111038
Our submarine fiasco explained
AMM 09/12/19.
Gary Johnston from Submarines For Australia says the reason America’s submarines are cheaper, nuclear, and are made faster is because Australia has been “dudded, right royally”.
Speaking to Sky News host Andrew Bolt, Mr Johnston said that it is a “farce” that the US will receive submarines seven years before Australia, despite a three year head start in the land Down Under.
“I have never in my life of business, have seen a worse deal that has ever been perpetrated by the government – and the government has had some bad deals,” Mr Johnston said.
“We’re a first world country, we need to demonstrate to the rest of the world we are a first world country… we have to abandon this silly diesel option.”
Source: Bolt Report, Sky News
VIDEO: Bolt Report sinks our subs http://morningmail.org/wp-content/uploa ... s.mp4?_=1
Leftist media saturates the news. Fight back. Send articles to your friends, politicians, local media, and facebook.
https://morningmail.org/our-submarine-f ... ore-111038
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
It is WA versus SA as they conduct a submarine battle.
The Politics Behind Australia’s Submarine Maintenance Decision. National defense becomes a domestic political issue in Australia.
By Adil Cader December 13, 2019
Australia's submarine fiasco Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Peripitus
Discussion around national defense has a https://www.tai.org.au/sites/default/fi ... 0cover.pdf for being bipartisan in Australian politics.
Despite minor disagreements every so often, both sides have tended to take a consensus approach in considering national security. This is upheld by the belief that defense and security issues should be formulated in the best interest of Australia.
However, a decision earlier this year by Australia’s Department of Defense to consider moving submarine maintenance to another city has resulted in a domestic political battle.
Currently, Australia’s Collins-class submarine base is located in Perth, Western Australia. The maintenance work is, however, conducted in Adelaide, South Australia. The Australian Department of Defense has been considering moving maintenance work to Perth. This has resulted in a domestic political battle with representatives from both states (at the federal and state level) vying for their state to receive the maintenance rights. The eight-member Australian National Security Committee (NSC) is set to make the final decision as to which state will receive the maintenance work.
The potential move directly involves 700 submarine maintenance jobs and holds political importance for both state governments. The maintenance contract is estimated to be worth around 400 million Australian dollars a year to the local South Australian economy. For WA, the potential move could bring about AU$8 billion to the economy as well as creating more than 3,000 jobs in the long term.
With decision day fast approaching, this battle has intensified in recent months. While some might argue that such a decision should be discussed solely in terms of what is in Australia’s best interest, quite a lot of debate in the media has been consumed by the domestic political implications of such a move.
On a federal level, the Australian government relies on cross-bench support in the Senate (Australia’s upper house) to pass legislation. This includes South Australian Senator Rex Patrick, whose party has two votes in Senate. Patrick has been campaigning for the maintenance work to remain in South Australia and expressed disappointment at the prospect of it moving to Western Australia. This has led to veiled threats by cross-benchers to thwart the government’s legislative support in the Senate should the move to Perth go ahead.
On a state level, the premiers of Western and South Australia have been involved in a public war of words. Both claim that their state is more capable of conducting the maintenance work and also accuse each other of being greedy.
The issue unfortunately has led to an element of tribalism in federal politics. There has been concern from various South Australian media and government representatives over Defense Minister Linda Reynolds’ potential “conflict of interest.” Reynolds is also a senator representing Western Australia (unlike the American system, Australian cabinet ministers are not independent of the legislature and are drawn from the parliament). In addition, three of the eight NSC members are from WA while none are from South Australia. This has led to further concern that their personal loyalties might influence the decision.
Some have pointed to Reynolds’ previous campaigning for GST reform in WA and being vocal in reinstating a Western Australian rugby team as evidence of her unwavering support for WA. However, these actions were taken in her capacity as senator for Western Australia. As defense minister, Reynolds will be expected to take the decision in the best interest for Australia. There will be further checks and balances as she will also be making the decision with other cabinet members from other states.
The South Australian government commissioned a report by an Adelaide-based university into why Adelaide would be the most suitable location for the maintenance work. In addition, there have been various lobbying efforts by state and federal politicians. Similarly, Western Australian state politicians have been putting forward their case as to why they should receive the contract. This includes an advertising campaign valued at around half a million Australia dollars.
Various independent studies have found advantages and disadvantages in both options. Western Australia is seen as advantageous because of the demonstrable evidence proving it is in the national interest to have operations and maintenance in the same city. However, independent reports have also suggested that keeping maintenance work in South Australia would improve performance and cost-effectiveness.
While both state governments do cite the national interest in their bids to win the contract, the political gravity of the eventual decision cannot be discounted. Among the media noise in the domestic political battle between South Australia and Western Australia, the National Security Council face an important decision to make in the national interest.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/the-pol ... -decision/
The Politics Behind Australia’s Submarine Maintenance Decision. National defense becomes a domestic political issue in Australia.
By Adil Cader December 13, 2019
Australia's submarine fiasco Credit: Wikimedia Commons/ Peripitus
Discussion around national defense has a https://www.tai.org.au/sites/default/fi ... 0cover.pdf for being bipartisan in Australian politics.
Despite minor disagreements every so often, both sides have tended to take a consensus approach in considering national security. This is upheld by the belief that defense and security issues should be formulated in the best interest of Australia.
However, a decision earlier this year by Australia’s Department of Defense to consider moving submarine maintenance to another city has resulted in a domestic political battle.
Currently, Australia’s Collins-class submarine base is located in Perth, Western Australia. The maintenance work is, however, conducted in Adelaide, South Australia. The Australian Department of Defense has been considering moving maintenance work to Perth. This has resulted in a domestic political battle with representatives from both states (at the federal and state level) vying for their state to receive the maintenance rights. The eight-member Australian National Security Committee (NSC) is set to make the final decision as to which state will receive the maintenance work.
The potential move directly involves 700 submarine maintenance jobs and holds political importance for both state governments. The maintenance contract is estimated to be worth around 400 million Australian dollars a year to the local South Australian economy. For WA, the potential move could bring about AU$8 billion to the economy as well as creating more than 3,000 jobs in the long term.
With decision day fast approaching, this battle has intensified in recent months. While some might argue that such a decision should be discussed solely in terms of what is in Australia’s best interest, quite a lot of debate in the media has been consumed by the domestic political implications of such a move.
On a federal level, the Australian government relies on cross-bench support in the Senate (Australia’s upper house) to pass legislation. This includes South Australian Senator Rex Patrick, whose party has two votes in Senate. Patrick has been campaigning for the maintenance work to remain in South Australia and expressed disappointment at the prospect of it moving to Western Australia. This has led to veiled threats by cross-benchers to thwart the government’s legislative support in the Senate should the move to Perth go ahead.
On a state level, the premiers of Western and South Australia have been involved in a public war of words. Both claim that their state is more capable of conducting the maintenance work and also accuse each other of being greedy.
The issue unfortunately has led to an element of tribalism in federal politics. There has been concern from various South Australian media and government representatives over Defense Minister Linda Reynolds’ potential “conflict of interest.” Reynolds is also a senator representing Western Australia (unlike the American system, Australian cabinet ministers are not independent of the legislature and are drawn from the parliament). In addition, three of the eight NSC members are from WA while none are from South Australia. This has led to further concern that their personal loyalties might influence the decision.
Some have pointed to Reynolds’ previous campaigning for GST reform in WA and being vocal in reinstating a Western Australian rugby team as evidence of her unwavering support for WA. However, these actions were taken in her capacity as senator for Western Australia. As defense minister, Reynolds will be expected to take the decision in the best interest for Australia. There will be further checks and balances as she will also be making the decision with other cabinet members from other states.
The South Australian government commissioned a report by an Adelaide-based university into why Adelaide would be the most suitable location for the maintenance work. In addition, there have been various lobbying efforts by state and federal politicians. Similarly, Western Australian state politicians have been putting forward their case as to why they should receive the contract. This includes an advertising campaign valued at around half a million Australia dollars.
Various independent studies have found advantages and disadvantages in both options. Western Australia is seen as advantageous because of the demonstrable evidence proving it is in the national interest to have operations and maintenance in the same city. However, independent reports have also suggested that keeping maintenance work in South Australia would improve performance and cost-effectiveness.
While both state governments do cite the national interest in their bids to win the contract, the political gravity of the eventual decision cannot be discounted. Among the media noise in the domestic political battle between South Australia and Western Australia, the National Security Council face an important decision to make in the national interest.
https://thediplomat.com/2019/12/the-pol ... -decision/
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
Aw BigP you did not post one of your ridiculous 500 page reels of rubbish.
Do I have to stir you up so you hate me ? I am good at that having demolished several Greenies who absolutely loathed me.
Do I have to stir you up so you hate me ? I am good at that having demolished several Greenies who absolutely loathed me.
- billy the kid
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
Surprised that this grubberment fiasco isn't receiving the attention it should be by forumites…
Do some googling people and youll see the extent of this monumental mind boggling, expensive screwup by
our grubberment…..
Do some googling people and youll see the extent of this monumental mind boggling, expensive screwup by
our grubberment…..
To discover those who rule over you, first discover those who you cannot criticize...Voltaire
Its coming...the rest of the world versus islam....or is it here already...
Its coming...the rest of the world versus islam....or is it here already...
- BigP
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- BigP
- Posts: 4970
- Joined: Mon Mar 19, 2018 3:56 pm
Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
Everything cost money Billy, At some point the Grub need to decide if they can steal more off the grafters out there, The beno's aren't worth their weight in sand >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>billy the kid wrote: ↑Thu Dec 19, 2019 2:46 pmSurprised that this grubberment fiasco isn't receiving the attention it should be by forumites…
Do some googling people and youll see the extent of this monumental mind boggling, expensive screwup by
our grubberment…..
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
Periscope raised BigP sinks below the surface.
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
Now why is Australia buying these expensive subs ? China aggression and USA slackness ?
Why Australia is spending billions to modernise its submarine fleet
By Bernard LaganDec 12, 2019
Amid fears over a menacing China and an isolationist United States, Australia is making a monumental commitment to renew and upgrade its submarine fleet.
Last year, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos became – briefly – the richest person in modern history when his personal wealth hit US$150 billion ($230 billion). He’s slipped a little since, but his July 2018 worth was about equal to the global value of fast-food king McDonald’s.
It’s also the amount Australia intends to spend renewing and operating just one weapon type in its defence arsenal – submarines.
There are two overwhelming, intertwined reasons for the monumental commitment: a more menacing China and the uncertainty that Australia’s protector, an increasingly isolationist US, can be relied on.
When Rear Admiral Greg Sammut, head of the Australian navy’s submarine programme, gave the updated costs of building and operating the fleet of 12 new submarines to MPs at the end of November – up by A$21 billion on just a year before – nobody objected. That’s despite the first of the French-designed vessels not being expected to enter service before 2032.
And nobody seriously believes the costs won’t rise – least of all the navy.
The fact that it will spend tens of billions more on submarines than the entire annual A$192 billion cost of welfare and social security in Australia tells much about the depth of unease. At the core is Australia’s anxiety over the ambitions and intentions of China, its largest trading partner and the nation almost single-handedly responsible for Australia’s 28 years of uninterrupted economic growth.
Proponents of the submarines (the vessels will replace six ageing Collins-class subs) argue their stealth, range and armaments will deter would-be aggressors because of the uncertainty they create. The would-be aggressor? Most likely China, but few politicians wish to say so because almost a third of Australia’s export receipts (A$123.3 billion) are earned in the Celestial Kingdom, mostly from iron ore, coal, food and wine. And, as Australia discovered in February when its coal exports began piling up on China’s wharves awaiting extra “environmental inspections”, offending Beijing carries costs.
Canberra had by then banned Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei from its new 5G cellular network and passed laws to curb foreign (read Chinese) interference in Australia’s politics and to prosecute acts of espionage.
November brought fresh evidence suggestive of China’s stepped-up efforts to exert influence: attempts by Beijing agents to get a Chinese Communist Party candidate elected to the Australian Parliament, with the informant who tipped off Australia’s security agencies found dead in a Melbourne hotel room; and a defecting Chinese government spy claiming to have a trove of information about his government’s espionage activities, including in Australia.
Duncan Lewis, the just-retired head of Australia’s domestic spy agency, Asio, in a startling interview last month, said China was seeking to “take over” Australia’s political system through its “insidious” foreign-interference operations.
Lewis, once head of Australia’s Special Forces, and a former ambassador to Belgium, the EU and Nato and Secretary of the Defence Department, spoke to Peter Hartcher, the Sydney Morning Herald’s veteran foreign-affairs specialist who has just published an acclaimed 20,000-word essay on China and Australia.
One of its theories is that Australia is the harbinger for the Chinese Communist Party’s grab for influence across nations. As Hartcher writes, it was first proposed by China expert John Garnaut, whose classified work for the Australian government on the extent of Beijing’s interference led to the new laws cracking down on foreign meddling.
“Australia is the canary in the coal mine of Chinese Communist Party interference,” wrote Garnaut. “Nobody knows what happens when a mid-sized, open multicultural nation stands its ground against a rising authoritarian superpower that accounts for one in every three of its export dollars.”
Unpredictability is the new certainty for Australia’s relationship with its most important trading partner.
And the costs are rising fast.
This article was first published in the December 14, 2019 issue of the New Zealand Listener.
https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/curre ... -modernise
Why Australia is spending billions to modernise its submarine fleet
By Bernard LaganDec 12, 2019
Amid fears over a menacing China and an isolationist United States, Australia is making a monumental commitment to renew and upgrade its submarine fleet.
Last year, Amazon founder Jeff Bezos became – briefly – the richest person in modern history when his personal wealth hit US$150 billion ($230 billion). He’s slipped a little since, but his July 2018 worth was about equal to the global value of fast-food king McDonald’s.
It’s also the amount Australia intends to spend renewing and operating just one weapon type in its defence arsenal – submarines.
There are two overwhelming, intertwined reasons for the monumental commitment: a more menacing China and the uncertainty that Australia’s protector, an increasingly isolationist US, can be relied on.
When Rear Admiral Greg Sammut, head of the Australian navy’s submarine programme, gave the updated costs of building and operating the fleet of 12 new submarines to MPs at the end of November – up by A$21 billion on just a year before – nobody objected. That’s despite the first of the French-designed vessels not being expected to enter service before 2032.
And nobody seriously believes the costs won’t rise – least of all the navy.
The fact that it will spend tens of billions more on submarines than the entire annual A$192 billion cost of welfare and social security in Australia tells much about the depth of unease. At the core is Australia’s anxiety over the ambitions and intentions of China, its largest trading partner and the nation almost single-handedly responsible for Australia’s 28 years of uninterrupted economic growth.
Proponents of the submarines (the vessels will replace six ageing Collins-class subs) argue their stealth, range and armaments will deter would-be aggressors because of the uncertainty they create. The would-be aggressor? Most likely China, but few politicians wish to say so because almost a third of Australia’s export receipts (A$123.3 billion) are earned in the Celestial Kingdom, mostly from iron ore, coal, food and wine. And, as Australia discovered in February when its coal exports began piling up on China’s wharves awaiting extra “environmental inspections”, offending Beijing carries costs.
Canberra had by then banned Chinese telecommunications giant Huawei from its new 5G cellular network and passed laws to curb foreign (read Chinese) interference in Australia’s politics and to prosecute acts of espionage.
November brought fresh evidence suggestive of China’s stepped-up efforts to exert influence: attempts by Beijing agents to get a Chinese Communist Party candidate elected to the Australian Parliament, with the informant who tipped off Australia’s security agencies found dead in a Melbourne hotel room; and a defecting Chinese government spy claiming to have a trove of information about his government’s espionage activities, including in Australia.
Duncan Lewis, the just-retired head of Australia’s domestic spy agency, Asio, in a startling interview last month, said China was seeking to “take over” Australia’s political system through its “insidious” foreign-interference operations.
Lewis, once head of Australia’s Special Forces, and a former ambassador to Belgium, the EU and Nato and Secretary of the Defence Department, spoke to Peter Hartcher, the Sydney Morning Herald’s veteran foreign-affairs specialist who has just published an acclaimed 20,000-word essay on China and Australia.
One of its theories is that Australia is the harbinger for the Chinese Communist Party’s grab for influence across nations. As Hartcher writes, it was first proposed by China expert John Garnaut, whose classified work for the Australian government on the extent of Beijing’s interference led to the new laws cracking down on foreign meddling.
“Australia is the canary in the coal mine of Chinese Communist Party interference,” wrote Garnaut. “Nobody knows what happens when a mid-sized, open multicultural nation stands its ground against a rising authoritarian superpower that accounts for one in every three of its export dollars.”
Unpredictability is the new certainty for Australia’s relationship with its most important trading partner.
And the costs are rising fast.
This article was first published in the December 14, 2019 issue of the New Zealand Listener.
https://www.noted.co.nz/currently/curre ... -modernise
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Re: Australia's submarine fiasco
The libs rushed submarines through to keep Pyne's seat. What a waste of money.
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