Australia's defence discussion

[Juliar]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

[Redneck]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Well you had better watch your step here, nasty Gmod !

Takes no prisoners!

[Black Orchid]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Oz thingies has fallen down and will never get up again.

[Redneck]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Oz thingies has fallen down and will never get up again.

And Monks is desperately in need of some good cut and paste posts!

[Black Orchid]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Oz thingies has fallen down and will never get up again.

And Monks is desperately in need of some good cut and paste posts!

Nah! We do NOT need to be pushing people towards that vile and ugly cesspit. I am sure Juliar will do just fine here!

[Redneck]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Oz thingies has fallen down and will never get up again.

And Monks is desperately in need of some good cut and paste posts!

Nah! We do NOT need to be pushing people towards that vile and ugly cesspit. I am sure Juliar will do just fine here!

Bah Humbug !!

[Black Orchid]

Redneck, what are you doing here ? Visiting ? Oz thingies does get a bit drab and boring at times so I venture out.

Oz thingies has fallen down and will never get up again.

And Monks is desperately in need of some good cut and paste posts!

Nah! We do NOT need to be pushing people towards that vile and ugly cesspit. I am sure Juliar will do just fine here!

Bah Humbug !!

I wouldn't wish the cesspit on my worst enemy!

[Bogan]

Briney wrote

The reason why VIRGINIA class subs are cheaper is 'cause there are more of them.

All the more reason to buy something that is already in production with a known cost. London to a brick the $6.6 billion a throw obsolete submarines we will get from France will increase in costs and will probably be duds like the F-18's. Everytime we buy something off the drawiing board it always turns into a fiasco. When will we ever learn? We will probably end up paying triple or quadruple for these obsolete subs than buying real submarines from the yanks. TheF-111's and F-35's doubled in price, why not these obsolete subs? $80 billion for 12? It will be more like $160 billion by the time the "design faults" of this one-of-a- kind obsolete sub are identified and rectified.

Briney wrote


The US has never supplied nuclear submarines to another country.

The US had never supplied F-111's to another country, either. We are still a valued and trusted ally of the USA even though USA hating people like your good self infest this country, especially in the universities and the public service. And we keep allowing people to immigrate to Australia who would fight for our enemies or betray our secrets if they got the chance. And the yanks might be a bit wary of selling us their secret nuclear submarines, because our stupid, minority sucking Lib/Lab governments would be stupid enough to make either Gladys Lui or Sam Dastyari the Defence Minister, just to show how multicultural we are.

Briney wrote


We lack the means and the ability to refuel a nuclear submarine which would mean a ~12 month refit in a US submarine yard, every 3-5 years.

It looks like the Virginia class is about half what the estimated cost of the obsolete submarine from France costs, and that before the inevitable price blowout. With the money we could have saved, we could have built our own nuclear refitting base in Jervis Bay and used our own uranium to fuel the subs.

Briney wrote

This was not the fault BTW, of the Department of Defence. It was a POLITICAL decision made by the politicians, Bogan, not the members of the RAN or the bureaucrats. Yet again, you miss.

A political decision based upon the good advice of the public service,, who are all good little socialists more concerned with getting the Labour vote in Labor governed bankrupt South Australia, instead of providing a credible defence of this continent. Submersible pork barrels is all they are. What's the bet that the final delivery date will be more like 2080 because of all the power blackouts stopping what is left of industrial production in SA?

[brian ross]

Australian Company Debuts High-Tech Body Armor

[brian ross]

Briney wrote

The reason why VIRGINIA class subs are cheaper is 'cause there are more of them.

All the more reason to buy something that is already in production with a known cost. London to a brick the $6.6 billion a throw obsolete submarines we will get from France will increase in costs and will probably be duds like the F-18's. Everytime we buy something off the drawiing board it always turns into a fiasco. When will we ever learn? We will probably end up paying triple or quadruple for these obsolete subs than buying real submarines from the yanks. TheF-111's and F-35's doubled in price, why not these obsolete subs? $80 billion for 12? It will be more like $160 billion by the time the "design faults" of this one-of-a- kind obsolete sub are identified and rectified.

As I keep pointing out, the F/A-18s have not been "duds" except in your imagination, Bogan.

The problem with your thinking is that we would always be behind what our opponents have because we would always be adopting outmoded and outdated equipment. If you don't order off the drawing board, you are buying old stuff which has seen it's day. According to you, would be buying P-40 Kittyhawks and not Mustangs. We would be buying Meteors and not Sabres (wait, we actually did that, now didn't we? How'd that work out in the end, Bogan?). We would be buying Hunters and not Mirages. We would be buying Mosquitoes and not Canberras. We would be buying A-5s and not F-111s. The list goes on and on...

The BARRACUDA submarines were purchased for a political reason. The Government wanted to be not so dependent on the US for all it's defence purchases. Just as it had before, for its Centurion MBT replacement and the COLLINs class of submarines. Australia is highly dependent on other countries for our defence purchases. We have been bitten in the past because of this. I suspect you can't even name those instances, can you, Bogan?

Briney wrote

The US has never supplied nuclear submarines to another country.

The US had never supplied F-111's to another country, either. We are still a valued and trusted ally of the USA even though USA hating people like your good self infest this country, especially in the universities and the public service. And we keep allowing people to immigrate to Australia who would fight for our enemies or betray our secrets if they got the chance. And the yanks might be a bit wary of selling us their secret nuclear submarines, because our stupid, minority sucking Lib/Lab governments would be stupid enough to make either Gladys Lui or Sam Dastyari the Defence Minister, just to show how multicultural we are.

There is a world of difference between an aircraft and a nuclear powered submarine, Bogan. If you cannot see that, what is the point in continuing with your diatribe against Australian defence decisions?

A nuclear submarine brings with it a complete refusal of policy which has lasted over 50 years and is held by both major political parties. It overturns our anti-nuclear stance and destroys everything we have said to our region and to the world about nuclear power and weapons. This would be a massive change in Australian Government policy.

Briney wrote

We lack the means and the ability to refuel a nuclear submarine which would mean a ~12 month refit in a US submarine yard, every 3-5 years.

It looks like the Virginia class is about half what the estimated cost of the obsolete submarine from France costs, and that before the inevitable price blowout. With the money we could have saved, we could have built our own nuclear refitting base in Jervis Bay and used our own uranium to fuel the subs.

You really have no understanding of how programme costs are determined do you, Bogan?

BARRACUDA is not "obsolete" in the slightest.

Briney wrote

This was not the fault BTW, of the Department of Defence. It was a POLITICAL decision made by the politicians, Bogan, not the members of the RAN or the bureaucrats. Yet again, you miss.

A political decision based upon the good advice of the public service,, who are all good little socialists more concerned with getting the Labour vote in Labor governed bankrupt South Australia, instead of providing a credible defence of this continent. Submersible pork barrels is all they are. What's the bet that the final delivery date will be more like 2080 because of all the power blackouts stopping what is left of industrial production in SA?

A political decision made on political considerations, not purely military ones, Bogan. Take it up with the Government of the day. Oh, wait, they were your lot, weren't they? Prime Minister Turnball and Co. from your pet Tory party? Oh, dearie, dearie, me.

As for the power black out in South Australia - that was caused again by a Tory Government under Dean Brown who decided it was, "more economic" to sell off the power station at Port Augusta (and allow the new owners to shut it down) and the power distribution system (which the new owners didn't maintain) and the failure to insist on a second interconnector with the eastern states. Along came the bad weather, down went the power lines and there was no power flowing from the eastern states 'cause the interconnector overloaded. That occurred on one day, Bogan. One day. How often do you get blackouts in Sydney, I wonder?