Should Australia be adopting Nuclear Arms

[Redneck]

With the rise of China and the USA bowing out of its involvement in world defence should Australia be taking a leaf out of Israels book and be Nuclear arming itself?

I believe this time of peace is where we should be preparing for war.

Perhaps we should double our 2% expenditure to 4% as a starter

Lets not wait until the gooks are landing on our beaches

[brian ross]

Nuclear weapons are expensive. We last looked seriously at nuclear weapons in the mid-1960s. Prime Minister Gorton was interested in developing them and the RAN in particular was interested in their use as ASW weapons. Gorton however, was deposed before giving the final go-ahead. McMahon was interested in cost cutting and listened to Foreign Affairs who advocated Australia signing the Non-Proliferation Pact, which we did in 1969 IIRC.

The NPT Pact has as a consequence been a corner stone of our anti-nuclear stance. We have been a strong advocate of that treaty and on our urging most of our neighbours have signed it. We have developed a strong anti-nuclear mentality in the society and the bureaucracy.

In the mid-1960s we were judged to be approximately 18-24 months away from developing our own, indigenous nuclear bomb. Today, the estimate is approximately 5 years or more. We simply do not have the trained nuclear engineers or technicians any more, required to undertake such a task. We would need to build a Uranium enrichment plant. We would need at least one or more larger nuclear reactors, which would add approximately another 5 years to the task (although their construction could start semi-concurrently with the increased training of engineers/technicians), so you'd be looking at approximately 7 years at the very least before production of Plutonium could begin. It would about 10 years in total before we could start building bombs.

We would first need to withdraw from the NPT. AIUSI, only the DPRK has done that. Israel never signed it, nor ASIUI did Pakistan or India. It would be a big step to do that. We would need to reorientate our foreign policy quite a lot as well. The US at the very least would be upset somewhat with us and might end the A**US Pact, which would add increased costs to our defence spending, apart from the nuclear weapons programme. We would lose New Zealand as a close ally because of their anti-nuclear stance.

With the acquisition of nuclear weapons comes increased risks, not only of nuclear accidents but also with the weapons themselves. We would need new handling procedures and safety checks. We would need new storage facilities.

You would need to consider also that this would skew our defence budget quite considerabley and also we would need to rethink our defence strategy and our relationships with our neighbours.

The Chinese (ie "gooks") are not going to appear over the horizon any time soon, so questions would be asked and this programme would have to survive at least two changes of Government during it's buildup. The ALP is opposed to nuclear weapons and nuclear power historically, so you'd need to overcome that at the very least. The Greens are inimical to anything nuclear. Society is decidedly anti-nuclear. So you'd have quite an uphill battle there, convincing everybody as to the necessity of this programme and how the dollars are going to be spent.

[Redneck]

I shall post out your white feather before Christmas Brian

Also I will write to the Chinese embassy and get them to reserve a spot for you in their Australian re-education camps!

[brian ross]

I shall post out your white feather before Christmas Brian

Also I will write to the Chinese embassy and get them to reserve a spot for you in their Australian re-education camps!

Where have I suggested surrender, Red? Please, check your Sinophobia at the door. You wanted a rational argument for and against, Australia acquiring nuclear weapons. You don't like that I've provided a calm, rational argument against acquiring nuclear weapons. Please, keep the insults in check.

[Black Orchid]

I'm not sure about nuclear weapons but we should spend some serious money on updating out defence capabilities.

The Chinese have already taken over Australia by stealth. They bribe and infiltrate both sides and if you haven't been to downtown Sydney lately you will find it is barely distinguishable from downtown Hong Kong.

[brian ross]

I'm not sure about nuclear weapons but we should spend some serious money on updating out defence capabilities.

And pray tell, where would all that extra dosh come from, Black Orchid?

Do you want higher taxes? Do you want to cut social security/health/education/environment spending? Do you want to cut (again) foreign aide?

The money must come from somewhere. We are already running a deficit in our spending, do you want to see ScoMo's much vaunted "surplus" blow out of the water (yet again)?

The Chinese have already taken over Australia by stealth. They bribe and infiltrate both sides and if you haven't been to downtown Sydney lately you will find it is barely distinguishable from downtown Hong Kong.

Your Sinophobia is showing, Black Orchid. Who cares what downtown Sydney looks like, except the people who live or go there? You're on the North Shore, when was the last time you went down there amongst all those Chinese Australians? Is it because they are Chinese? Speaking Chinese? Or is it because you're at heart a Xenophobe?

As for the Chinese taking over Australia "by stealth", they are long, long way from doing that. That they have been detected in their half-hearted efforts shows that they have failed. Sure, we should up our cyber and political defences, but to suggest we are stealthily controlled by China is poppycock.

[Black Orchid]

Piss off dickhead

[brian ross]

Piss off dickhead

Gee, I love you too, Black Orchid. Unable or unwilling to answer the argument, you resort to ad hominem attack. Typical of a loser.

[Black Orchid]

Piss off dickhead

Gee, I love you too, Black Orchid. Unable or unwilling to answer the argument, you resort to ad hominem attack. Typical of a loser.

Brian your idiotic name calling little rants are just not worth it. You are like a little kid who always wants to be right but rarely is and then the only thing you can do is pull out your little bag of names.

Noting how many Chinese are in Sydney does not mean I am scared of them. Idiot.

EDIT: Oh and correctly identifying you as a dickhead is not an insult. It's just correctly identifying you.

[Neferti]

I shall post out your white feather before Christmas Brian

Also I will write to the Chinese embassy and get them to reserve a spot for you in their Australian re-education camps!