Greta Thunberg

[Baronvonrort]

mmm

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[The4thEstate]

Whoops, my previous post appears to have gotten garbled in the editing process. Let's try this again:

Not to worry, we all make mistakes, 4E

Yeah, but this is the first of my lifetime!

Nah, I wouldn't consider Murdoch a globalist sellout. He founded Fox News, which presents news and views that are the antithesis of the globalist perspective. Without Fox News cable news would be nothing but leftist propaganda.

You may not but you're only looking at his domestic US enterprise. Outside the US he has been quite willing to be a Globalist. Your views on what constitutes "leftist" is as we have seen all too often, far more biased than what reality indicates, 4E.

Actually, my views on what constitutes leftists are entirely consistent with the way they're defined in America.

Your mileage may vary.

Problem is, you're not talking to an American, 4E...

Well, that's my point: Since I'm talking ABOUT American politics, what matters most is the way Americans define their own political left and right wings.

I make no claims about how Australians define theirs.

Sounds like an inferiority complex to me.
No reason to be defensive just because some of us Yanks happen to have a favorable opinion of our own country. It's not a zero-sum game. (Hey, we like Australia, too!)

You are welcome to believe what you like, 4E. Nothing inferior about me. I know that according to Freedom House I live in the freer of our two nations.

Oh please, let's not assume that Freedom House is an objective, middle-of-the-road observer.

Here's a laughable example of Freedom House's bias: "The president has also lambasted and threatened the media — including sharp jabs at individual journalists — for challenging his routinely false statements."
https://freedomhouse.org/report/freedom ... world-2018

Lost in the Trump bashing is the fact that Obama, whom the organization regards adoringly, was guilty of actually spying on the media. As Issues & Insights puts it:
https://issuesinsights.com/2019/05/25/r ... y-thought/

President Trump might be openly hostile to the mainstream media, but it was the Obama administration that was engaged in a widespread effort to thwart the media. Which do you think is more harmful to a free press?

The Columbia Journalism Review reports on a newly released government document showing that the Obama Justice Department engaged in a far more sweeping effort to spy on the Associated Press than previously believed.

I find more wisdom in defining "left vs. right" as "statist vs. individual liberty," as described in this 2013 Forbes article:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/harrybinsw ... a1a59c5f5c

"We need a rational way of setting up the political spectrum ... I have no objection to calling this spectrum 'Right vs. Left.' I have every possible objection to defining the extreme Right as fascism and the extreme Left as communism.

"Fascism and communism are two variants of statism. Both are forms of dictatorship. Neither one recognizes individual rights nor permits individual freedom. The differences are non-essential: fascism is racial statism and communism is statism of economic class."

The original "left" versus "right" was defined in the French Revolution. Since then it has been redefined as being based primarily on economic freedoms. The "Left" was defined as collectism versus the "Rights" belief in laissez faire economics. The was further redefined towards a mix of economics and freedom. I prefer that view. "Statism" is a very American view of the world IMHO.

Perhaps so, but again, it's America's view of it own left/right politics that I'm talking about.

Umm ... no, I'd say Trump's try-something-new approach of the North Koreans translates to: "How well did it work for Obama and previous presidents when they tried to buy off the Kims with billions of dollars in aid?"

Go ahead, try pointing to the successes of the previous administration in its dealings with North Korea.

How about the previous regime to that one or the one before or the one before that or the one before that again ad infinitum? All were rather hampered by what Congress and the American people would allow. Trump has managed to make contact with Kim Jong Un but has he actually been all that successful? He's had two meetings with him, the first was semi-successful, the second? Not so successful. I wish him all the luck in the world in dealing with Kim Jong Un.

Well, as CNBC noted on Oct. 1:
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/10/01/north-k ... -says.html

"North Korea had been developing SLBM [submarine-launched ballistic missiles]technology before it suspended long-range missile and nuclear tests and began talks with the United States."

So that's a step forward.

You are mistaken 'cause you have identified negative stories about Trump as meaning those stories are actually "Left" in tone/sentiment. They aren't, they're just anti-Trump. Trump does not personify the ideals of the Right. Indeed, I am unsure what Trump believes as against what Trump actively does.

Yeah right, and I suppose you also believe that Bernie Sanders doesn't personify the ideals of the Left.

Tell me, does he, in your view? I must admit I don't know enough about Bernie Sanders to have made my mind up. I don't believe Trump personifies anything other than his own views.

Sure, Bernie's a lefty. He's a socialist through and through: He wants more government control of Americans' lives and money in exchange for lots of big promises.

That said, I'll at least give him credit for admitting that his healthcare scheme would raise Americans' taxes. Fellow lefty Elizabeth Warren dodges the question every time it's asked of her.

So what, in your mind, could possibly make Trump a lefty?

Haven't suggested he was a "Lefty", 4E. Please erect your strawman arguments somewhere else.

Well, you just said this: "Trump does not personify the ideals of the Right. Indeed, I am unsure what Trump believes as against what Trump actively does."

So if he's not a lefty ... and you don't think he personifies the ideals of the right ... what does that make him in your book: a centrist?

You seem to think that being pro-Obama immediately makes a person a leftist. Me? I just think they are pro-Obama. I have no idea about what their personal beliefs are vis-a-vis economics and personal freedoms. If someone is anti-Trump they are being well, anti-Trump because Trump has in their view done something wrong (which to be honest isn't hard for Trump). I don't believe there was all that much that Obama did that was wrong from my perspective. He didn't end up being impeached, or rather being investigated for impeachment, now did he?

Obama and his underlings did plenty wrong, including selling arms to Mexican drug cartels in "Operation Fast and Furious," resulting in dozens of deaths to Mexican civilians and at least one U.S. border patrol agent. He also spied on the American press, but like a battered spouse, they always took him back, put makeup over their black eyes and told him they loved him.

But the final chapter hasn't been written on the ethics of the Obama administration. The origins of the Russia collusion hoax are being investigated by Attorney General Barr and lead investigator Durham even as we speak, and it just went from an administrative review to a criminal investigation. That could involve former top intelligence officials he Obama administration.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... s-nervous/

Well, that's the point: America IS affected by the world economy, which is why Trump has declared that the U.S. will no longer meekly accept multi-billion-dollar trade imbalances at the hands of China, South Korea, Japan, etc.

Well, actually, that does mean he believes the US isn't part of the world economy, 4E. He believes that the US cannot trade with the rest of the world because there will always been imbalances in trade. Until the last 30 or so years, it was all in favour of the US, not it's turned in part against the US because the US has decided to price itself out of the world economy.

Why should Trump tolerate an imbalance in trade with any nation? Especially if he's concerned about American jobs staying in America.

But that's hardly the same as asserting that "the U.S. cannot trade with the rest of the world." He's happy to trade with the rest of the world -- he just doesn't want more billions of dollars leaving the U.S. than entering it. That's known as "America First" instead of "America: Everybody's Deep-Pocketed Friend."

He's also served notice to NATO nations that it's time for all of them to pay their agreed-upon "fair share."

Couldn't agree more. Tell me, when is the US going to pay the going rate for all it's bases in Europe that it presently gets for free? Seems the US gets a large quantity of real estate very cheaply out of it's membership of NATO.

And European nations get a defense force without paying for the weaponry or the troops. Pretty sweet deal.

That's why I find it refreshing to have a president who asserts America's interests instead of constantly bowing -- literally and figuratively -- to foreign leaders and international bodies that don't deserve $3 billion of the American taxpayers' money, given their track record for wasting it.

Tell it to the members. The UN is not, despite what many Americans appear to believe a separate body. It is composed of all it's member states - including the USA. Now, if the US was really interested in reforming the UN, it would have made a move within the UN, rather than always just railing at it from the outside.

Given the fact that America pays about 22 percent of the U.N.'s budget -- China is a distant second with 12.5 percent (2017 figures) -- it's hardly surprising that Americans feel entitled to criticize the U.N. when they see fit.

Quite honestly, a lot of Americans would be happy to let another nation have the "honor" of hosting the UN for a while. Hey, how about Australia?

[Valkie]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

[Hebe]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

She’s achieved a lot. What have YOU achieved?

[Valkie]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

She’s achieved a lot. What have YOU achieved?

Far more than she ever will
But I won't bore you with my achievements as you are obviously not really interested

Go back to fawning over a retarded child.

[Hebe]

[Nom De Plume]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

She’s achieved a lot. What have YOU achieved?

I have achieved much also, but picking on a youth with Asperger syndrome, is not one of them.

[Valkie]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

She’s achieved a lot. What have YOU achieved?

I have achieved much also, but picking on a youth with Asperger syndrome, is not one of them.

Ahhh

But it's so much fun

Isn't that why they are here?
To be ridiculed and picked on?

Or is that only for white, Anglo Saxon, hetrosexual males?

[Valkie]

How can there be 16 pages about a dead beat, non entity child who will grow up to be an abject failure in life.

What a waste of bytes

She’s achieved a lot. What have YOU achieved?

I have achieved much also, but picking on a youth with Asperger syndrome, is not one of them.

Ahhh

But it's so much fun

Isn't that why they are here?
To be ridiculed and picked on?

Or is that only for white, Anglo Saxon, hetrosexual males?

[Nom De Plume]

Kids lit 4 fires in one area. Morons. The fire at Turramurra was also deliberately lit.

hard to comprehend

I have visions of a bunch of feral and rabid Gretas running around trying to make a point. *sigh

I thought you had declared this thread wasn't to be about politics, Black Orchid. Obviously that doesn't include pointless digs at Greta Thurnberg.

You are brilliant at playing the victim, but appreciate also that you do some pretty shitty things to other members here!