Australia's defence discussion

[Bobby]

China is looking more like Nazi Germany in 1936.
They now have a fuhrer who is leader for life just like Hitler.
They have a huge and growing military just like Hitler.

We need full scale disarmament talks led by the UN.
India is also a problem.
Russia is an even bigger problem.
The USA is retreating from the world just like
the isolationist policies of the 1930s.
We haven't learnt from history.
It's either agree to disarm or we face another world war.
Unfortunately this time it will end up going nuclear.

[brian ross]

Death toll much higher at Afghanistan protest than NATO publicised, according to human rights report

And DoD sorta confirms the truth and the whole truth was not told....

(Don't blame the ADF members - they had to make decisions on the hop but NATO/ISAF needs to be more honest if they are actually win the "hearts and minds" overseas and here

[Black Orchid]

There is no doubt in the minds of many that leadership in the ADF has been replaced with social engineering lunacy as one supposed leader after another abandoned common sense in favour of PC nonsense. The latest to dazzle us with his questionable judgement is the newly appointed chief of the ADF General Angus Campbell.

General David Hurley got the ball rolling when as chief of the ADF he sacked Major Bernard Gaynor, a veteran of three deployments to Iraq, because he was openly opposed to the politically correct erosion of our military standards that resulted in uniformed participation in the Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras and the associated attacks on the Christian religion. After installing this craziness into the ADF, Hurley toddled off to become the Governor of NSW.

Then along came General David Morrison. You remember him, he was the one who became Australian of the Year and ponced around on women’s high heels while calling for equality for women in the ADF. As a result of such nonsense our ADF now boasts downgraded fitness requirements for women in the front line and the recruitment of women in place of those terrible blokey white Anglo/Australian males.

Following on was Vice Admiral Ray Griggs. His claim to fame was to not only have an affair with a sailor’s wife but to have her promoted to the rank of Commander. Unlike ol’ Barnaby, who eventually stepped down, Griggs doesn’t even show that much class as he hides behind the protection of an investigating panel that refuses to release the details of his illicit affair because they are private matters.

Griggs is another of our fine military leaders who has never heard a shot fired in anger but wears an unbelievable shirt full of hardware. Of the fifteen medals he wears only one is for active service while six are foreign awards handed out by Indonesia, United States, France, Singapore, Philippines and Spain. In addition and not surprisingly, he is a supporter of the LGBTI brigade.

That brings us to the latest display of exceedingly bad judgement on the part of an ADF so-called leader. General Angus Campbell is about to become the top dog of the ADF despite a list of questionable decisions that would see the records of a junior officer marked not fit for promotion.

First cab off the rank is the appointmenty of an Army Reserve officer, one Brigadier Kathryn Campbell. Brigadier Campbell took three months leave from the public service to become deputy commander of Joint Task Force 633 Middle East and Afghanistan. Many would question the wisdom of appointing a reserve officer with no battle experience to a command position in a war zone.

As Chief of the Army General Angus Campbell ordered an inquiry into the SAS based upon rumour, hearsay and conversations. The Inspector-General posted an advertisement calling for people to come forward if they had heard rumours or heard others talking about the actions of soldiers on the front line in Afghanistan. Victoria Cross recipient Ben Roberts-Smith ripped into the Inspector-General and Angus Campbell when he said, “When have you heard of a judicial process initiated off the back of rumour? It’s a joke. We should be looking after our soldiers not persecuting them.” At the time of a parliamentary committee hearing on the 25 October 2017 this witch hunt had been running for 17 months based upon unsubstantiated gossip.

Next came Angus Campbell’s latest brain-snap when he decided that it was terribly wrong for our service personnel to be wearing “symbology” portraying death. Seemingly ignoring the fact that a soldier’s job is to engage and kill the enemy, Campbell says, “This is not where we need to be as a national institution. As soldiers our purpose is to serve the state, employing violence with humility always and compassion wherever possible. The symbology to which I refer erodes this ethos of service.” The Sydney Daily Telegraph got it right when it said, “There’s your new army slogan: “Employing Violence with Humility”. It’ll probably sound less stupid in Latin.

It appears to have escaped General Campbell’s notice that he himself wears the Infantry Combat Badge that displays a bayonet. The bayonet has one purpose and that is to kill and maim. Is this befuddled General going to ban that badge too.

General Angus Campbell seems to favour focusing on gender issues instead of concentrating on our reduced military capabilities within our own region. Last year Campbell addressed a Defence Force conference on recruitment at which time he said, “The number one priority I have with respect to recruitment is increasing our diversity, with a focus on women and indigenous Australians.” In summing this up Cori Bernardi also took into account the issuing of Halals ration to our troops when he said, “This demonstrates just how our military has been captured by minority interests and appears to have suspended the application of common sense.”

https://www.cirnow.com.au/adf-in-disgrace/

[brian ross]

Ah, the old "I hate being told off for calling people names," viewpoint, hey, Black Orchid?

The ADF is meant to reflect the society that it is protecting. Australian society has stated that it believes homosexuality is perfectly OK. It has also said that sexism, Racism, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, you name it are not OK. Why are these people so concerned by ADF leaders working to enforce those views on it's members? It sounds like sour grapes to me.

You get your orders, you carry them out. You are ordered to not to express sexism, Racism, Xenophobia, Islamophobia, anti-Semitism, etc. If you do, you get disciplined. Simples really.

[Black Orchid]

I have no idea what you are talking about in your first sentence but if you applaud downgraded fitness requirements for women in the front line and the recruitment of women in place more capable men just because they are women you, and people like you, should be held personally and directly responsible for any casualties suffered from such downgraded and lax standards.

[brian ross]

I have no idea what you are talking about in your first sentence but if you applaud downgraded fitness requirements for women in the front line and the recruitment of women in place more capable men just because they are women you, and people like you, should be held personally and directly responsible for any casualties suffered from such downgraded and lax standards.

This is about a lot more than just "downgraded fitness requirements," Black Orchid. It is about whether we should allow women/gays/Muslims/etc. to serve in the ADF. It is about discrimination against people on the basis of the colour of their skin, their gender, their religion, their sexuality, etc. Don't assume it is just about "downgraded fitness requirements,"

"Fitness" is a myth that has been propagated for decades as a means of ensuring only soldiers that fit a particular physical look are allowed to serve. I knew diggers who drank like fish, smoked like power stations and were able to go all day, all night and keep on going when "fit" soldiers keeled over. "Fitness" is just a means of measuring whether a person can run five kilometres in a set time. It does not measure stamina, it does not measure ability and it doesn't measure staying power.

"Bluey Evans" was an Equipment/Plant Operator. He'd served in Korea and was still serving in the 1980s. His favourite trick was to get a half a dozen litre cartons of milk in the morning and stand them on the engine cover of his grader/dozer and drink them during the day. By the end of the day, they were boiling hot! "Bluey" had been around since Adam was in three cornered pants and was known to one and all, from Privates to Generals. Whenever a visiting General arrived, who'd they ask to see? "Bluey". "Bluey" would give them all the goss, who was a good CO who was a shit one, how the unit was doing morale wise and then they'd reminisce about the "good ol'days" when "Bluey" taught a young Lieutenant all about how to operate Plant.

Should we throw out the concept of "fitness"? No but we shouldn't allow it to rule who can or cannot serve as a soldier in the front line, Black Orchid. I've known female soldiers who would never win a beauty pageant but were tougher than most blokes when it came to working. One female digger I knew held the record for 4MD for changing a truck tyre (and that involved jacking the truck up, unbolting the wheel, removing it from the vehicle, putting a new one on and bolting the wheel again and lowering the vehicle and then removing the old tyre from the rim and replacing it. She was a big girl, I can assure you.

That article was more about someone's homophobia and sexism than anything. The Australian Defence Forces defends Australian society. It is a volunteer force. It should reflect the society it is drawn from.

[Black Orchid]

Toss out all the 'phobias' you want to, Brian. My post was about downgrading fitness requirements for women or anyone. It was not about the colour of anyone's skin nor their sexual preferences.

Calling people 'phobes', 'sexists' or 'bigots' is an evasion tactic which is your usual operational procedure to twist a topic. Call me anything you like but you would have to be a monumental fool if you think that downgrading requirements to accommodate ANY minority in our defence force is going to benefit or strengthen it in any way you are insane.

[brian ross]

Toss out all the 'phobias' you want to, Brian. My post was about downgrading fitness requirements for women or anyone. It was not about the colour of anyone's skin nor their sexual preferences.

Calling people 'phobes', 'sexists' or 'bigots' is an evasion tactic which is your usual operational procedure to twist a topic. Call me anything you like but you would have to be a monumental fool if you think that downgrading requirements to accommodate ANY minority in our defence force is going to benefit or strengthen it in any way you are insane.

You don't like it when I correctly identify a person's argument and give it the correct name, do you, Black Orchid. Tough. It is what I was taught to do in debating. If it upsets you, as I've always said, change what is being said and I will change what I am identifying the argument as. This argument is all about Sexism and Bigotry. It is about the "Old Army" not being able to obey lawful commands issued by their superiors to them to shut the fuck up, treat their compatriots with humanity and be soldiers/sailors/airmen.

[Nom De Plume]

Toss out all the 'phobias' you want to, Brian. My post was about downgrading fitness requirements for women or anyone. It was not about the colour of anyone's skin nor their sexual preferences.

Calling people 'phobes', 'sexists' or 'bigots' is an evasion tactic which is your usual operational procedure to twist a topic. Call me anything you like but you would have to be a monumental fool if you think that downgrading requirements to accommodate ANY minority in our defence force is going to benefit or strengthen it in any way you are insane.

You don't like it when I correctly identify a person's argument and give it the correct name, do you, Black Orchid. Tough. It is what I was taught to do in debating. If it upsets you, as I've always said, change what is being said and I will change what I am identifying the argument as. This argument is all about Sexism and Bigotry. It is about the "Old Army" not being able to obey lawful commands issued by their superiors to them to shut the fuck up, treat their compatriots with humanity and be soldiers/sailors/airmen.

Chill Brian, Black, has made a valid point.

My post was about downgrading fitness requirements for women or anyone. It was not about the colour of anyone's skin nor their sexual preferences.

In Sparta, the men and women were in peak condition for battle, at all times: Mentally and Physically. I see no value in downgrading fitness. And, downgrading it, to what? It all sounds rather sub-par.

[brian ross]

This should interest "Nicole". Problem is, they aren't Black...
RSL pushes to have charges laid against a Snowy Mountains council over WW1 memorial