ICAC anyone???

[The Reboot]

Hi Fred and welcome to PA.

Maybe Albanese will turn out to be Labor's great white hope and I still don't understand why Shorten was revered as an idol by so many who maintain that Shorten was badly done by because the right disliked the man as opposed to disliking his policies.

Any and all, from both sides, should be investigated for receiving money from foreign developers like Huang Xiamgmo. Foreign donations should not be allowed period. There is only one reason Chinese funds are poured into a party, especially in an Aldi bag. Didn't they learn anything from Sam Dastyari?

Perhaps you should ask that question of the Tories, Black Orchid? Afterall, Gladys Liu has been a member of a Chinese organisation with close ties to the Chinese Government for over 10 years, yet according to ScoMo, that's perfectly acceptable...

You're the one who claims she criticises the Tories yet here we have a perfect example of you only mentioning the ALP's sins and ignoring the Tories'.

For God's sake Brian are you blind or just habitually obtuse? I made a thread saying that Gladys Liu should be properly investigated and DUMPED a month or more ago and I haven't changed my mind.

Here's the link since your memory seems to be so poor!

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=16750

Now how about commenting on the topic instead of following me around with your biased nonsense.

I haven't forgotten that at all, Black Orchid. However you chose to only attack the ALP in this thread - why? It appears you're the one who's forgotten all about Gladys. Dastyari is old news. Gladys is recent news. Why ignore her?

Honestly dude, is there some sort of prize in forcing others to admit some idea of political persuasion??? Are points scored on chasing people around the forum and attacking them???

I have to admit, I have not seen much of the forum yet but there seem to me a few posts that were simply attacks on other members for nothing more than their personal political bias.

So, I would have to ask, since I started the thread on the ICAC investigations into ALP donations and the failure of the ALP to introduce investigations into corruption in the party since Obied, I would wonder if you would like to engage on the topic or just brow beat others into submission???

Please feel free to tell me why you think I am wrong on the topic. Please provide some sources to support your belief and perhaps give me a reasonable theory as to why previous corrupt activity was ignored in this topic.

Then maybe we could compare the difference between the two parties. Unfortunately, you will be disappointed on that last aspect. But honestly at present you’re not presenting me with a good picture of intelligence, wisdom or education. I don’t mean to insult, I am not usually the person who resorts to such, but being new to the board, I always give others a fair go. So I would like the respect to have others return the favour.

I Hope, that from this you will engage in the thread.

Welcome to the forum, Fred.

As you will soon learn, Brian Ross is a troll with delusions of grandeur. He will attack others for posting stuff he doesn't agree with, often parroting various "isms" and "phobes"... he will complain if you insult him, yet it's perfectly acceptable (and justified) in his eyes, to post one liner ad homs, filled with arrogant petulance.

He will accuse you of "slinking off sulking" because apparently you don't have an argument to oppose the mascot for morality -- the high and mighty Bwian Ross, but a quick examination will reveal that it is he that is "slinking away to sulk" because he can't come up with an argument. He hides behind arrogant ad homs, the very thing that he criticises others for.

It's fun though, if you need to kill some time and he's around.

[Black Orchid]

I won't say I liked Shorten because I didn't. I was impressed with Albanese up until I saw him interviewed awhile ago re boat people. He was all for it and stood there with welcoming open arms. Come one come all. Living in one of the two major cities where all these people get dumped en masse and where crime in their enclaves is rampant I was disappointed. Hopefully his views there have changed too.

I will defend Albanese here, I think he would be toeing the party line. He seemed to be good at voicing the party line when he agreed (or did not go against his principle values) but was quiet when his principles were crossed. I don't think he lacked conviction of his beliefs or politics such as Penny Wong, but that is yet to be seen. Currently, imo, he is preforming well. I will watch him but if he doesn't come up with decent policy well not much I can say. I am honestly saying I glossed over Shortens policy position due entirely to the fact I did not like him for his political lies and expediency. time will tell.

Gladys Liu is the Lib who arranged the dinner for Turnbull where ASIO advised him not to attend. She should have been dumped but it doesn't look like she will be. Nothing about it for weeks then suddenly this ...

Thanks for that, completely forgot her name. I noted As soon as the ALP questioned Morrison on this matter he tried to play the race card. I wonder if he realised just how bad an idea that was in reflection of Gillard playing the sexism card???

I am really wondering just what is happening in the background. The last time I saw anything like this was the scandal with AWB paying cash to Iraq to buy Australian Grain. You know, where Howard sent a delegation to the US telling them Australia would never do that. Until being caught out. The ALP were very quiet in comparison over this because they were complicate themselves it had been going on that long.

As far as I am concerned, she never should have been indorsed in the seat to begin with after that happened. Now it is used as smoke and mirrors. Just what is Morrison up to.

they didn’t learn from Dastyari, they didn’t learn from Obeid, but clearly they not worried about the act. They appear to be more worried about being caught in the act…

That's about the sum of it.

[/quote]

Maybe Albanese can change the 'party line' then because they aren't in step with the people imo. Shorten was pushing for a tax payer funded Gender Commissioner and free sex change procedures and wondered why he didn't win the election in a landslide. Labor are out of touch and need to listen a bit more to their voter base instead of relying on immigrant votes (which consist of more than half our population growth) and who are more likely to vote Greens/Labor.

As for Morrison defending Liu by using the race card I have to say that was a very disappointing stance to take. With Labor being in the spotlight through ICAC I would have thought he might have taken another path. We don't need Chinese money nor connections to communism in our political system. They are both bad enough as it is.

[Fred]

Maybe Albanese can change the 'party line' then because they aren't in step with the people imo. Shorten was pushing for a tax payer funded Gender Commissioner and free sex change procedures and wondered why he didn't win the election in a landslide. Labor are out of touch and need to listen a bit more to their voter base instead of relying on immigrant votes (which consist of more than half our population growth) and who are more likely to vote Greens/Labor.

No matter what Albanese does from here, he has raised the party out of the gutter Shorten dragged it too. What a joke that scum was, Be warned I absolutely hate Shorten. He talked about ending the adversary in Australian politics while being the main protagonist. Claimed he stood against domestic violence while ignoring the criminal activity within his union buddies not just accused, but convicted. Along with several other clear policy intervention that just dragged the nation down…

So considering all that, “Shorten was pushing for a tax payer funded Gender Commissioner and free sex change procedures and wondered why he didn't win the election in a landslide” the dope didn’t realise we had his number… As I said before, I could get past the personality to see his policy, but what I did see, was politics of envy, not decent nation building.

Oh, Don’t tar the immigrants with the same brush, I believe most are smart enough to see the Greens as the hate filled party of Australia. Most immigrants are for shutting the boarders and keeping the nation for themselves. Bit of a bad call trying to pander to the support base trying to pretend considerate policy.

As for Morrison defending Liu by using the race card I have to say that was a very disappointing stance to take. With Labor being in the spotlight through ICAC I would have thought he might have taken another path. We don't need Chinese money nor connections to communism in our political system. They are both bad enough as it is.

Honestly, it was mentioned when it happened and it just went silent. I really didn’t think they would indorse her for the next election. I had forgotten she even existed until it raised it’s ugly head again. Morrison has put his hat on the wrong topic here, for politics is about the reputation of the members. Her reputation is apparently very questionable, the fact she is representing a predominant Foreign electorate with the thought she is consorting with possible foreign entities raising funds which clearly influence the government of the day is just stupid…

I must say though, I never credited Morrison with great intelligence. He just seems to be a good salesman, in the right place at the right time (for himself)

[Black Orchid]

I was reading an article recently where they went out and interviewed a sample of immigrants from all walks and asked them, if they could vote, who would they vote for? The target group overwhelmingly said that, if they could vote, they would do so for the ALP or Greens. Obviously that isn't representative of all immigrants but there are certainly groups who want more of a voice here and possibly for religious reasons.

As for ScoMo being in it for himself. Aren't they all? What we seem to be stuck with on all sides is scraping the bottom of the barrel ... or trough.

If Pauline Hanson stepped aside and let someone else lead One Nation perhaps both major parties might actually be shaken up and challenged because in essence both the majors are just two sides of the same coin and believe they are above reproach because they are a monopoly.

[Fred]

I was reading an article recently where they went out and interviewed a sample of immigrants from all walks and asked them, if they could vote, who would they vote for? The target group overwhelmingly said that, if they could vote, they would do so for the ALP or Greens. Obviously that isn't representative of all immigrants but there are certainly groups who want more of a voice here and possibly for religious reasons.

One thing people need to understand... Opinion polls are just that, opinion. They can be skewed by simply what questions are asked. also by where and when you ask the questions and who decides to respond. Since by process they ask less than .001% of the population and then extrapolate it across the entire population should be telling enough.

So basically, opinion polls provide statistics to be slanted to whatever purview the pollsters want to present to sell their particular product. Many say they have to be reasonably accurate, well do they??? Most of the biggest polls taken in the last couple years have been so wide of the mark and still governments are stabbing their leaders in the back over them… News polls are the worst because they ask YOU to respond and take limited action for accuracy. Take the QLD governments poll to change the name of a hospital in QLD. Over 20% of respondents came from the ministers own office (according to claims)

Last but not least, the media interview… Once I had discussion of a member of Four Corners crew about a story made. He stated to me that they often make two stories with slant either way. Interviews are edited and selected to meet the issue either for or against. Then the team sits own and decides which way to go… Not suggesting the ABC is bias but media plays the interviews they think will sell their product, not the reality. All discussion I have had personally with immigrants usually ends up with being told Australia needs to tighten controls on who can enter and who cannot. Then when they meet the requirement, don’t demonise them… BUT that is what I have been told.

As for ScoMo being in it for himself. Aren't they all? What we seem to be stuck with on all sides is scraping the bottom of the barrel ... or trough.

Oh you’re not wrong. Australian politics seem to be more about trying to determine who is least worst.

If Pauline Hanson stepped aside and let someone else lead One Nation perhaps both major parties might actually be shaken up and challenged because in essence both the majors are just two sides of the same coin and believe they are above reproach because they are a monopoly.

She had her chance, and the party is no better. She was handed the best opportunity when she was labelled racist and tossed from the liberal party. BUT she not only embraced it she promoted it. Sure she appeals to that minority of racist morons and some complete idiots. She demonstrated her word is worth nothing and even if she deals she will renege because she had a bad morning…

And look at her line up. People who look more at home on social security than actually working. Anyway, the joke of Hanson will die the same death of the democrats

Australia needs a decent alternative. Clive Palmer, made all the right noises but when in… god what a joke. The rise of the minor parties gives some semblance of hope, but unless these leaders of these parties work out that party means teamwork, not dictatorship, more of the same.

The Greens want to pretend they are an alternative to any government yet they only seem to be a protest party who sow the seeds of criminal decent and activism to push their own agenda of forcing the world to live in their desired (and often ignorant) ways…

I don’t see where alternative can come from. Somebody, might rise from the ashes like a phoenix but I just don’t see anybody altruistic enough to actually stand up and get it going.

[brian ross]

OK, lets see if I can get this right, to satisfy, Fred.

ICAC is a NSW state organisation. It does not hold any jurisidication outside of NSW. It is charged with investigating and prosecuting state politicians and have acted corruptly under NSW law, right?

So, then, why are people talking about Federal Politicians? I admit I made that mistake in response to Black Orchid.

It seems to be that this more an ALP bashing exercise than anything else. Particularly as I have pointed out, Black Orchid has chosen to ignore Gladys Liu. I wonder why?

[Fred]

OK, lets see if I can get this right, to satisfy, Fred.

ICAC is a NSW state organisation. It does not hold any jurisidication outside of NSW. It is charged with investigating and prosecuting state politicians and have acted corruptly under NSW law, right?

So, then, why are people talking about Federal Politicians? I admit I made that mistake in response to Black Orchid.

Uh-huh.

To your first point, Corruption knows no borders...

Why are people looking to Federal Politicians??? Parties only know borders when they can hide behind them...

So, the very fact that ICAC is state organisation and corruption is being found all over, I would consider it VERY important to act federally to expose and expel any and all corruption.

It seems to be that this more an ALP bashing exercise than anything else. Particularly as I have pointed out, Black Orchid has chosen to ignore Gladys Liu. I wonder why?

An ALP bashing thread, eh??? I usually don’t suffer fools easily but seriously, did you read the OP???
Apparently you don’t have anything to add just complaint.

Now, as it was post early in the thread Orchid posted comment on these actions and not from tunnel vision you appear to hold. Obviously Orchid had posted previous on the matter you refer and now you sit complaining that a thread created on the basis of corrupt findings of the ALP donations from a Chinese body and the creation of internal investigations as being bias…

I love people who try shut down ANY discussion because, well basically, they cannot discuss it. “Oh it is so unfair to discuss ALP policy because it isn’t flattering” Get over it…

if all you have is hatred and bulling then don’t bother. I am not interested in being brow beaten by party drones who would cheer and applaud as their party leader is cutting their guts open to steal their kidneys. I am not American; I don’t believe party preference refutes any argument. I think it is just foolishness.

[brian ross]

OK, lets see if I can get this right, to satisfy, Fred.

ICAC is a NSW state organisation. It does not hold any jurisidication outside of NSW. It is charged with investigating and prosecuting state politicians and have acted corruptly under NSW law, right?

So, then, why are people talking about Federal Politicians? I admit I made that mistake in response to Black Orchid.

Uh-huh.

To your first point, Corruption knows no borders...

Corruption may not but ICAC does, Fred. It cannot investigate anyone outside of NSW's state borders AIUI.

Why are people looking to Federal Politicians??? Parties only know borders when they can hide behind them...

No, Parties know borders that limit their powers. The border of NSW limits the powers of ICAC. QED.

So, the very fact that ICAC is state organisation and corruption is being found all over, I would consider it VERY important to act federally to expose and expel any and all corruption.

Take it then you support the calls for a Federal ICAC to investigate Federal crimes of corruption then, Fred?

It seems to be that this more an ALP bashing exercise than anything else. Particularly as I have pointed out, Black Orchid has chosen to ignore Gladys Liu. I wonder why?

An ALP bashing thread, eh??? I usually don’t suffer fools easily but seriously, did you read the OP???
Apparently you don’t have anything to add just complaint.

I complain about things that need complaining about. If you want to propose a Federal ICAC, the propose one. NSW ICAC is quite happy bashing the ALP in NSW, thank'ee very much. NSW ALP has always been, just like the NSW Tories rather on the nose.

[Black Orchid]

It seems to be that this more an ALP bashing exercise than anything else. Particularly as I have pointed out, Black Orchid has chosen to ignore Gladys Liu. I wonder why?

You are wearing your appalling bias and hatred on your sleeve again, Brian. Not only did I make a thread saying that Gladys Liu should be dumped some weeks ago but I have also said the same thing in this thread more than once. I have also said I do not agree with the way ScoMo addressed it.

How is that ignoring Liu? You are just being dishonest and petty because I don't say the things you want me to.

[Fred]

OK, lets see if I can get this right, to satisfy, Fred.

ICAC is a NSW state organisation. It does not hold any jurisidication outside of NSW. It is charged with investigating and prosecuting state politicians and have acted corruptly under NSW law, right?

So, then, why are people talking about Federal Politicians? I admit I made that mistake in response to Black Orchid.

Uh-huh.

To your first point, Corruption knows no borders...

Corruption may not but ICAC does, Fred. It cannot investigate anyone outside of NSW's state borders AIUI.

And thus it needs to be addressed federally… Listen I am all for Albanese appointment (or announcing) this investigagtion. For me, it promotes the party not detracts from it. BUT I have to ask why it was not commenced earlier, A completely legitimate question. Just because the body who uncovers the corruption can only act within the state should NEVER be an excuse to stick your head in the sand and pretend it didn’t happen…

Why are people looking to Federal Politicians??? Parties only know borders when they can hide behind them...

No, Parties know borders that limit their powers. The border of NSW limits the powers of ICAC. QED.

Irrelevant… the ALP is state and federal as a party… Ignoring the state because you can get away with criminal behaviour in other states is NOT an argument.

So, the very fact that ICAC is state organisation and corruption is being found all over, I would consider it VERY important to act federally to expose and expel any and all corruption.

Take it then you support the calls for a Federal ICAC to investigate Federal crimes of corruption then, Fred?

Yes, I do. I have NO compunction to hide from reality. Not just federal crimes either but corruption of any description.

It seems to be that this more an ALP bashing exercise than anything else. Particularly as I have pointed out, Black Orchid has chosen to ignore Gladys Liu. I wonder why?

An ALP bashing thread, eh??? I usually don’t suffer fools easily but seriously, did you read the OP???
Apparently you don’t have anything to add just complaint.

I complain about things that need complaining about. If you want to propose a Federal ICAC, the propose one. NSW ICAC is quite happy bashing the ALP in NSW, thank'ee very much. NSW ALP has always been, just like the NSW Tories rather on the nose.

So you complain that ICAC is ALP bashing by exposing corruption, in NSW. Corruption of illegal donations covered up and paid to ALP for the expressed purpose of buying favour of the ALP???

Tell me, Should ICAC and the rest of Australia ignore these corruptions because YOU believe it is all about bashing the ALP??? Maybe you forget about the NSW premier having to resign over as small (be it $3k worth) as an undeclared gift??? But since all they do is bash the ALP???

Seriously dude, corruption in all its forms should be eradicated. Should an ICAC type panel be created federally, I think you will see a lot of rats fleeing the sinking ship and they will not be bound by partisan politics, I can assure you.

But you go on complaining political bias, ignore the good your party does to rebuild itself and pretend it was all cookies and cream all along. The reality is far from your truth.