Climate Change

[The4thEstate]

I am tied of challenging the climate deniers with facts. This has been going on here for years.

It has become the equivalent of arguing for or against the existence of God. A waste of time as the deniers are entrenched in their position.

So ... if climate change is such a hair-on-fire emergency, how come the people who say so don't act like it?

Take the vaunted Paris agreement. Setting aside the fact that the 2015 Paris climate talks produced an estimated 300,000 tons of CO2 -- https://www.wired.com/2015/11/the-paris ... -worth-it/ -- what "results" came of it?

Well, let's play a little game here:

1. Which nation spews the most CO2?
2. Which nation was granted a 15-year reprieve from reducing its CO2 emissions?
3. Which nation has been increasing its construction of coal-fired generating plants ever since?

Hint: The answer to every question is the same. Now tell me how serious the climate change alarmists really are about the big, scary catastrophe I'm supposed to be afraid of.

Maybe the so called "climate deniers" are actually the people who aren't gullible enough to fall for the global climate scam. Let me know when Al Gore sells his 10,000-square-foot mansion and starts bicycling to climate conferences.

[The4thEstate]

I distinctly remember during the 90"s that climate scientists were predicting that the Arctic would be ice free by 2010. Bong.

They predicted that New Orleans and Miami would be under 3 meters of seawater by 2010. Bong. Coastal real estate prices all over the world have not crashed and nobody with a ocean front property (including Australia's climate commissioner Tim Flannery) trying to sell their properties.

Tim Flannery's prediction that "the dams will, never fill again" looks funny when the dams did fill again and they drowned Brisbane and Townsville.

"Entire nations" were not "wiped off the Earth by 2000", as predicted by Noel Brown, the director of the UN environment Program in 1989.

Some trepidation about the validity of HIGW should have been expressed when the very first IPCC meeting was held in the Europe during the one of the worst snow storms that Europe had ever recorded.

Climate "Scientist" Dr David Viner, of the Climatic Research Unit at East Anglia University. (you remember them, the Climategate guys) predicted that “Children just aren’t going to know what snow is.”

The UK Parliament passed a bill authorising tens of billions of pounds to alleviate climate change during the worst snowstorm in July since 1934.

In February 2019 the USA was up to it's eyeballs in snow, and it was even snowing in Los Angeles, which it just like saying is snowing in Brisbane.

Europe and Russia drowned in snow in February 2019.

The Himalayan Glaciers did not melt.

The "ship of fools", consisting of an expedition from Sydney University which set sail to Antarctica in a taxpayer funded chartered Russian icebreaker, to prove that the East Antarctic Ice Shelf was melting. Instead it got stuck in record amounts of thick sea ice and had to be rescued by carbon belching rescue ships and helicopters.

The "urgently" needed (and hugely expensive) desalination plants in Sydney, Melbourne and Adelaide which still rot away unused.

The Climategate scandal where supposed "scientists" from the East Anglia Climate Research Unit discussed among themselves how to fudge the data which clearly displayed that global temperatures were not rising. And, they also discussed the sacking of one EACR scientist wo was a climate change sceptic.

And whaddya know, the Australian Bureau of Meteorology themselves got caught red handed "adjusting" the historical temperature data by the families of people who have been recording temperatures in their own districts for over 100 years, and who still have their families hand written records to prove it.

Good post, Bogan.

And a tip of the hat from across the pond. Welcome.

[Bogan]

4E wrote

2. Which nation was granted a 15-year reprieve from reducing its CO2 emissions?

Here is another one, Super Nova. Guess which nationality the head honcho of the IPCC is today? The same IPCC which gave China a free pass for it's global emissions for the next 15 years?

Hint It starts with "c" and it ends in "e"

[brian ross]

The world's climate has proved more robust than was originally predicted. However, it appears to be approaching a tipping point. As much as Climate Change denialists like to declare that their view is correct, it appears the evidence does not back them up.

[Bogan]

Brian, if I was to declare that there are little green men on Mars then the onus is upon me to provide proof of that statement. It is not on the sceptics who scoff at the idea of little green men on Mars and who demand some sort of proof that these people exist.

There is no proof that Human Induced CO2 emissions is causing temperatures to rise. The IPCC itself admitted to that itself when it's 2001 "working group" reported...

'In climate research and modelling, we should recognise that we are dealing with a coupled and non linear system, and therefore that the long term prediction of future climate states is not possible."

For almost thirty years people and governments have listened to dozens of dire predictions about soon to be realised catastrophic climatic events which never materialised. If somebody claims that they are experts in a particular field and then they make predictions based upon their supposed expert knowledge which turn out to be laughably inaccurate, then any sane person would conclude that they have no idea what they are talking about.

Especially when some of those experts have been caught red handed fudging the figures and releasing graphs like Robert Manne's laughable and now infamous "hockey stick graph" which supposedly "proved" HIGW by conveniently air brushing out the entire Medieval Warm Period.

Climate sceptics are in a ideal position because not only do we have enough knowledge to refute the wild theatrics which passes for climate science, we can even use science to prove that the alarmists are wrong, even though the onus is not upon us to do so.

The climate always changes, and it always has, and it always will change. Sceptics need only to look back at the historical record of the regularly occurring climatic changes which happened like clockwork around every thousand years, with interglacial ice ages every ten thousand years, and really bad full on ice ages every 100,000 years. Our present warming period is right on schedule and it only differs from hundreds of preceding warming periods in that it coincided with the industrialisation of the human race.

[brian ross]

Multiple studies in the last few decades have shown very serious issues we are facing now This is best summed up by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change statement: "Scientific evidence for warming of the climate system is unequivocal." The current warming trend is of particular significance because most of it is extremely likely (>95% probability) to be the result of human activity since the mid-20th century and proceeding at a rate that is unprecedented over decades to millennia. The primary contributor to this is increased CO2 in the atmosphere:


[Click on the image for a fuller sized one to appear]

Note that this graph is via NASA (that bunch of obvious con artists) - see here for more details.

As you can see, this goes back nearly one million years. Whilst it does not show temperature per se, it does provide a good correlation since it has been long known that increased CO2 does directly relate to increased temperatures. As is shown in the graph, the increase in the last 50 - 70 years is out of kilter with the long term cycles.

There is more information here as well. To try to dismiss or discount human activity as a significant contributor to current events is mind boggling.

[Bogan]

Can anyone tell me how to post up pictures on this site so that I can throw Brian's misinformation graph right back in his face?

[Bogan]

Oh hang it. While I am waiting for somebody to show me how to post graphs and pictures, I will ream out Brian anyway (it's my favourite hobby next to FPV airplanes).

Brian, all that your graph shows is that in the last 800,000 years, atmospheric CO2 has been extremely low, and now it is beginning to rise. If you had included temperatures against CO2 levels in with your graph, then you might have discovered how little CO2 and temperatures co relate.

Anyone who knows anything about graphs knows that the larger the samples the more accurate you can make predictions based upon the graph. Just taking a tiny sample from a graph on an insignificant Y-axis can prove anything. And 800,000 years out of 600 million is a tiny sample.

Look up "Photo, CO2 Levels and temperatures, 600 million years." This tells us that global CO2 levels were once extremely high and global temperatures were very high too. But although global temperatures and CO2 levels have been decreasing for 600 million years, the graph shows no real causal relationship with the other. There have been times when CO2 levels plummeted markedly while the temps rose steeply. And times when CO2 levels rose significantly while the global temperature plummeted.

Is there any co relation between CO2 and global temps, yes there can, but only during periods of extremely low concentrations of CO2, as exist in the atmosphere for the last few million years. Atmospheric CO2 levels have never been lower and there was a belief among agronomists that if they continued to fall to 150 parts pm, no plant life on Earth could be possible. It could be argued that the human caused increase of CO2 levels is actually a good thing for life on Earth.

You might remember Al Gore displaying a graph of CO2 versus global temps to a class of undergrads and getting oohs and aahs from the audience because it apparently displayed a close relationship between CO2 and global temps.

But there was a reason for that for Al did not explain. The reason is that the Earth's temperatures rise and fall, and so ocean temperatures rise and fall with them. And the oceans hold 50 times more absorbed CO2 than the atmosphere. So when the planet warms for something like 30 different reasons, (Malkovich cycles, variations in solar energy output, cosmic rays, continental drift altering ocean currents, which sometimes work with each other and sometimes against) then the oceans will release CO2 because warm water holds less CO2 than cold water. But it is global temperature which drives CO2 levels at very low concentrations of atmospheric CO2, not the other way around. Got that? At very low concentrations of atmospheric CO2, temperatures drive CO2 levels. CO2 does not drive temperature levels.

Could Human Induced CO2 cause global warming? Possibly. But since it is only a theory with absolutely no evidence to back it up, then while governments should be concerned, and maybe investing in renewable energy and nuclear power, it does not merit running around like Chicken Little screaming "THE SKY IS FALLING!" and destroying all of the economies of western civilisation, in order to let China get the jump on us.

Can rising CO2 levels alter visually alter anything? Yes it can. Agronomists have discovered "the greening of planet Earth." It appear that the increasing CO2 levels in our atmosphere is stimulating plant growth, with plants worldwide growing bigger, higher, and in higher elevations and normally unsuitable locations, than ever before.

[Black Orchid]

Can anyone tell me how to post up pictures on this site so that I can throw Brian's misinformation graph right back in his face?

Above the posting box you will see a series of icons. If you hover your cursor over each you will see what they represent. Ninth from the left is an image icon and if you press this you will see the [ img][ /img]. You simply right click the image on the web you wish to post and then paste it in the middle ie [ img] post image here [ /img]. Pic 1.

If you want to post an image from your computer you scroll down to Attachments then click Add File wait for it to load and click Submit. Pic 2.

Both options may need to be resized. You will get a message if this is the case.

I hope this is clear?

[Black Orchid]

Upload from computer ...