The point is, Tex, you live in a Wild West society where you believe you need a gun to answer any problem. Downunder, we don't. Simples really. Guns are for criminals. Criminals usually cannot afford guns because they are relatively rare and expensive to procure, so they tend to be used for important crimes such as bank robberies, hold ups, drug deals and "pay back". They aren't used for house break-ins.Texan wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 9:04 pmYou completely ignored what I posted. I said nothing about criminals having guns. What if 4 “men” barge into your home just after your family goes to bed? They are armed with knives and clubs or are unarmed. Other than calling the police if you have time, how do you respond and with what level of force? What happens if you use your kids cricket bat and you discover that they are unarmed? You are unable to predict what force you can legally use until it’s too late.brian ross wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 6:45 pmWell, as relatively few criminals have guns, you really don't need to worry about that aspect, Tex. Many have knives so a chair or a similar implement that keeps them at arms length would do the trick.Texan wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 2:28 pmIf a criminal breaks into your home at night, how are you supposed to know what a proportionate response is? Do they text you ahead of time to tell you how many will be in attendance and which weapons they will be bringing? How can you tell what is a proportionate response in the dark? Happy guessing. Your life, your wife’s chastity, and your freedom all may depend on your choice of weapon.brian ross wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 2:09 pmThankfully we don't live in the Wild West downunder, Tex. Most Australians don't like what they see in the US as far as self-defence goes. Oh, you also cannot own a gun for self-defence in Australia. That was taken away as justification for gun ownership after the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre. It was why we enacted strict firearms legislation in Australia, to stop us "going down the American road".Texan wrote: ↑Sun May 26, 2019 1:39 pmI don’t like what I’m seeing with self defense laws in Australia. I see stories of groups of people breaking into homes and if a homeowner defends himself with a gun, he is treated like a criminal. I’m a big fan of the castle doctrine. Basically, it’s open season on any criminal who breaks into an occupied car or home.
Downunder, Criminals have rights just as much as their victims do. If you respond to a criminal, your response must be proportionate to the threat you are facing.
It is not unusual for homeowners who respond disproportionately to a criminal threat to face criminal charges such as manslaughter (if they kill the criminal) or assault. The Police attitude is that it is easier and safer to allow the judiciary to work out if they are guilty of those crimes, rather than have them act as the judge and jury.
Simply being charged does not mean they are judged guilty until the courts have seen the evidence to show they are.
The problem is, for you, Tex, you society has become so weaponised, guns are the solution to all problems, according to the NRA. Downunder, guns are relatively rarely used in crimes because of the penalties that means the criminal is faced with when they are sentenced. Doesn't mean they aren't used, just that they are only used occasionally.
As to what is "proportionate", well as long as you don't kill your opponent, basically anything is allowed (even guns).
In my house, I identify that they are not my family members or guests and shoot one of them. The rest will run, most likely. I can’t afford to assume that they only want to rob me. We have a saying here. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6. Why else would 4 people break into an occupied home but to rape, rob, or kill? Texas law recognizes that fact and allows me to defend my family.
As to why 4 people would break into an occupied house - perhaps it is an aspect of your society that such crimes are commonplace. "Home invasions" are usually undertake downunder by far fewer criminals. They aren't commonplace either. Indeed, "home invasions" only really started appearing downunder about 20 years ago. Before that, burglaries were common - that is where a burglar enters a house by stealth and avoids confrontation. "Aggravated Burglary" was what they used to call "home invasion" and I am unsure why the name changed, perhaps it was the influence of Hollywood?
You may not like how we do things here. Fine. We don't like the way you do things there. If you ever come downunder, just remember to leave your guns at home. You won't need them.
