Bail out

[JW Frogen]

Suck my big, fat, juicy balls AIA.

Suck them hard and suck them long.

would a good scrotum cleaning suffice?

Do I get a free wax?

[JW Frogen]

It appears this bail out is hugely unpopular with the American people who, it appears, haven't taken all that kindly to a 'socialise the losses' philosophy with their hard earned tax dollars to save Wall Street bankers from themselves. And it doesn't look like either party wants to be burdened with the legacy of having got multi-millionaire (billionaire) traders off the hook. On the other hand, there may be no other way out. The US is headed for a recession, probably no doubt about that and its not likely there's much that can be done will stop it... but will a bail out of any kind avert even worse.. A depression?

Are we at the stage where a 'Shades of Vietnam' style withdrawal from Iraq is on the cards?

The government agreed to protect (socialising is owning means of production, actually buying the company and running it) a percentage of losses long ago.

This is primarily a mortgage bond issue, though it is sweeping through financial institutions that bought those bonds and having a knock on effect.

The big fish at the institutions are already off the hook; they took their huge parachute packages and got the hell out of Dodge.

But one other group is responsible, the US government. Starting from the 70s it told financial institutions it would back a % of many loans, at first this made sense giving the credit market stability but they gradually lent such assurances to riskier subprime loans (loans that went to people who really should have never had loans, the borrowers too bare some responsibility for taking on debt they had a dubious ability to pay) and institutions like Fanny Mae and Freddy Mac (old man river, he don’t know nothun) where more than happy to oblige.

Now the entire house of cards comes tumbling down, the big fish in these institutions took their money and ran and the government HAS to buy a large portion of these bonds or see the destruction rip through the economy.

Iraq is different to Vietnam in one significant way, we are winning and have almost won.

[helian]

Iraq is different to Vietnam in one significant way, we are winning and have almost won.

What does 'won' mean? Just maintaining the status quo is going to take years with a standing army dedicated to maintaining democracy.
If by 'won' you mean being able to back out without an exact repeat of the Vietnam backout fiasco, then yes, the US has won.

[JW Frogen]

No, “won” means a democracy where there was only tyranny before.

“Won’ means the will of the vast majority of Iraqis being respected.

“Won” means a unified Iraqi state rather than the Democratic plan of flee, call it peace and watch Iran, Turkey, Syria pick at the body.

“Won” means Al Qaeda does not reside in a failed state as they did when we fled Afghanistan and called it peace.

“Won” means long term a stable Iraqi democracy does not throw the region into one war after another as Saddam did.

“Won” means the Middle East has an alternative paradigm to tyranny for oil or theocracy.

By all these measures the surge has almost won this war.

[helian]

No, “won” means a democracy where there was only tyranny before.

“Won’ means the will of the vast majority of Iraqis being respected.

“Won” means a unified Iraqi state rather than the Democratic plan of flee, call it peace and watch Iran, Turkey, Syria pick at the body.

“Won” means Al Qaeda does not reside in a failed state as they did when we fled Afghanistan and called it peace.

“Won” means long term a stable Iraqi democracy does not throw the region into one war after another as Saddam did.

“Won” means the Middle East has an alternative paradigm to tyranny for oil or theocracy.

By all these measures the surge has almost won this war.

And when the US tires of injecting upwards of 400 billion a year into the war and housing its 146,000 troops in Iraq...

When finally, under either McCain or Obama, US troops leave Iraq, what then?

The only way Iraq will remain a "democratic" state is with a large standing army dedicated to a secular state and democracy, like Turkey... and an Iraqi Ataturk hasn't risen yet.

[JW Frogen]

Despair is easy; any half wit can post that.

Most do.

The fact is a multi-religious democracy is rising in Iraq (with the Sunni now joining the democratic Iraqi govenerment), this government is largely secular, far more so than any other government in the Middle East now including Turkey.

So here is our choice, despair and leave right at the moment of victory, or do the hard work of finishing what we started, right at the moment of victory.

Only the Left is addicted to Western defeat, right at the moment of victory.

That is all you have, a litany of Western defeat.

You have no solutions to anything.

You only have a constant cry of defeat.

Woe is me! Or rather, "woe is I.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[helian]

Despair is easy; any half wit can post that.

Most do.

The fact is a multi-religious democracy is rising in Iraq (with the Sunni now joining the democratic Iraqi govenerment), this government is largely secular, far more so than any other government in the Middle East now including Turkey.

So here is our choice, despair and leave right at the moment of victory, or do the hard work of finishing what we started, right at the moment of victory.

Only the Left is addicted to Western defeat, right at the moment of victory.

That is all you have, a litany of Western defeat.

You have no solutions to anything.

You only have a constant cry of defeat.

Woe is me! Or rather, "woe is I.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ah, that's what I like... in the spirit of "Peace with Honour". Nixon would be proud.

What you have is the hope against the odds that it wasn't all for nothing.
It was a ridiculous idea that has cost the US huge dollars and many lives. Unless and until Iraq has a powerful secular army dedicated to the preservation of the secular state, including the will to overthrow non secular administrations, sooner or later the government will fall.

[JW Frogen]

Peace with honor is of course preferable to your option, self-indulgent despair, genocide and historical senility, pretend the chaos is peace; honor need not apply.

Even Obama has recognized how successful the surge has been, I know you want most Iraqis to suffer chaos so you can say your woe was for something (it is always about you on the far Left) but one would think any civilisised person would be happy the democracy most Iraqis risked their lives for is now on going to survive.

One would think.

But then the Left has it’s own concerns.

Iraqis are not part of that equation.

[Raed Jarrra]

“Won’ means the will of the vast majority of Iraqis being respected.

Lol.
Which vast majority of Iraqi's is that?
The Iraqi parliament?, The Iraqi people?, The US armed Iraqi militias

Or is it JW Frogen,the Americans, and their unelected Iraqi puppets?

I'd personally say the latter.

[Mr MONEYBAGS]

This was done during the savings and loan crises, it worked and even provided the US treasury with long-term profit.

I fail to see the connection.

Today major banks and national/global financial institutions are failing, rather than local mortgage brokers.

Please explain the connection.