Can Someone tell the UN to

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Serial Brain 9
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Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Serial Brain 9 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:56 am

GO to BUGGERY?

Right now would be a good time.
UN to continue fight against Australia’s border policies

Turning back asylum boats at sea puts lives at risk, and the UNHCR will continue to lobby to end the practice and for Canberra to lift its restrictions on refugee resettlements out of Indonesia, ­regardless of who wins the ­election.

The UN refugee agency’s ­Indonesia chief, Thomas Vargas, told The Australian that turn-back policies such as those used by Australia’s Border Force to prevent boatloads of asylum-seekers reaching Australia “just don’t work”. :roll:

“If you turn someone back or push them away, you risk pushing them into harm’s way — and that’s what is so ­terrible about these types of policies — rather than rescuing them, bringing them to safety and then figuring out how best they can be helped,” Mr Vargas said.

“One country might say ‘Yes, it’s working for us’, but that leaves other countries to deal with the situation and inevitably we are all in this together.”

JACQUELIN MAGNAY
Indonesians involved in the people-smuggling trade have told The Australian they are closely monitoring federal election campaigning and say they are ready to kickstart their trade if a new government weakens the nation’s tough border policies. Indonesian authorities have said they, too, are following the ­debate and bracing for a possible change in policy that could lead to a resumption of boats.


The Weekend Australian reported on Saturday that a boat carrying up to 200 asylum-­seekers had left India this month and could be headed for New Zealand but may plan stops in ­Indonesia or Malaysia.

Refugee resettlements out of Indonesia have slowed dramatically in recent years as traditional resettlement countries such as Australia have increased restrictions on intakes and shifted their priorities to allow more refugees from war-torn Syria. The US has slashed its intake to a quarter of its former annual resettlement quota.

Last year just 509 of an estimated 14,000 refugees were resettled out of Indonesia, compared with 763 in 2017, and 1271 in 2016, and the refugee population has been told to expect possible waits of a decade or more.

The message prompted 455 ­refugees to leave Indonesia and ­return to their home countries last year,
many of those to Afghanistan where the Taliban now holds more ground than at any time since before 2001 and civilian ­casualties are at a record high.

People-smugglers in Indonesia are counting on the rise in violence in Afghanistan, combined with the resettlement slowdown, to convince more refugees to chance their luck with a possible new Australian government.

Chairul Anwar, one of Indonesia’s most senior bureaucrats dealing with refugees and people-smuggling, told The Australian boat turnbacks had so far been ­effective in ending the people-smuggling trade out of Indonesia.

“But if the resettlement process is unclear, the queue is long, and refugees have to wait years without any certainty, then they will become desperate,” Brigadier General Anwar said, adding it would be “good news” if Australia was willing to take more refugees, especially out of Indonesia. “People-smuggling and irregular ­migration depends very largely on the stability of their original countries. The problem is we haven’t seen these countries regaining ­stability. The Rohingyas, the ­Afghans, they will continue to seek asylum as long as there is not ­stability in their countries.”

The UNHCR has been critical of Australia’s ban on accepting refugees who arrived in Indonesia after July 2014 and of its boat turn-back policy, which it says endangers lives and flouts international law-of-the-sea conventions.

Mr Vargas told The Australian the UNHCR position was that “countries work together to rescue any boats in distress” and to ensure anyone in distress made it safely to the nearest port of entry.

“One way or another, governments have to find ways to work together to make sure those two things can happen and that not any one government is saddled with finding the solution and no one else is helping,’’ he said.

“If you have a situation where people are not safe in their own country, and their lives are at risk if they do not leave, you can try to deter them all you want but there will be people that will risk their lives to try and save their lives and those of their families.

“So unless these wars stop, a pushback policy is ultimately not going to work.

“As long as there are push ­factors the boats will continue.” Australian authorities say turning back asylum boats saves lives by robbing the people-smuggling industry of its main incentive, and that the policy has brought the asylum boat trade to an effective halt.

With a May federal election looming, political sparring between the Morrison government and the opposition has escalated in recent weeks over which party has the toughest and most effective immigration policies. Opposition Leader Bill Shorten has vowed to continue offshore processing of asylum-seekers and boat turnbacks if Labor is elected to government.

He has also promised an ­additional $500 million over five years for the UNHCR, and to ­accept more refugees by increasing the Community Sponsored Refugee Scheme from 1000 places to 5000.

Additional reporting: Nivell Rayda

AMANDA HODGESOUTH EAST ASIA CORRESPONDENT
Amanda Hodge is The Australian’s South East Asia correspondent. Based in Jakarta, she has covered war, refugees, terror attacks, natural disasters and social and political upheaval from Afghanistan to Sri Lanka... Read more

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sprintcyclist
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by sprintcyclist » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:05 am

yes, as the article says, Bill wants to give the UN $500 M of our taxes.

then raise taxes.

I am certain illegals will flood in again.
Right Wing is the Natural Progression.

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Black Orchid
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Black Orchid » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:59 am

The UN is a joke and we should leave it but we don't have anyone with enough guts to initiate that.

Just look at the UN board. What human rights do most of their countries have? Oh that's right ... NONE! And we let these people dictate to us?

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Serial Brain 9
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Serial Brain 9 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:17 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:59 am
The UN is a joke and we should leave it but we don't have anyone with enough guts to initiate that.

Just look at the UN board. What human rights do most of their countries have? Oh that's right ... NONE! And we let these UNELECTED people dictate to us?
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

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brian ross
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by brian ross » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:18 pm

So, you want to leave the UN do you, you cross little children?

So, what happens if someone attacks Australia? Who do we appeal to? The US? What if it is some where like, say, as unlikely as it could be, Indonesia?

The US has a policy of not becoming involved in stoushes between neighbours, particularly with those that which it is closely allied to, such as Australia and Indonesia. Just look at how it has reacted to the numerous border disputes between Turkey and Greece for an example. Hands off, all the way. It's alliance system was originally designed to counter and contain Communism, not to foster one nation over another. The A**US treaty is a joke. All it requires is the signatories to "confer" over any threat to their territory of forces in the Asia-Pacific region (although that might have been reinterpreted unilaterally by John Howard when he was in Washington during 11 September).

Without the UN to back us, we are basically on our ownsome, lonesome, defensively or economically. The TPP might be able to help us with economics but it is not a defence treaty by a long shot. The UN provides a figleaf and a justification for nations to help one another when/if they are attacked. It is a collective security guarantee. If you don't believe me, look at the invasion of Iraq what happens to unilateral military efforts when they fail to gain the legal justification of a UN sanction to back them.

Nothing the UN does has any effect in Australia unless an Australian Government passes legislation which enables it to occur. Your fears are groundless and pointless. However, I suspect I am talking to deaf ears who prefer to believe in UN conspiracies. Tut, tut, just pull those blankets higher to keep the bogeymen at bay. :roll:
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

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Serial Brain 9
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Serial Brain 9 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:26 pm

Since when does the UN have an ARMY Brian? :roll:

The UN are nothing but a bunch of UNELECTED elitist misfits filling their own slushfunds with taxpayers cash.
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

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Black Orchid
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Black Orchid » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:30 pm

The UN backing us against invasion? Did you drink your breakfast this morning Brian? :rofl

If for no other reason we are strategically very important to the US and if you think they would sit back and see us invaded by Indonesia, China or anyone else you are delusional.

Still :rofl :rofl :rofl

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brian ross
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by brian ross » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:39 pm

Serial Brain 9 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:26 pm
Since when does the UN have an ARMY Brian? :roll:

The UN are nothing but a bunch of UNELECTED elitist misfits filling their own slushfunds with taxpayers cash.
The UN doesn't need an army. Memberstates are obligated to supply forces when/if the UN calls upon it's membership to provide them. It has worked reasonably well - Korea, Congo, Iraq I990, Kosovo, East Timor, etc.

As usual, you focus on what you want to, Serial instead of looking at the broader picture. The UN is way a general world war has been avoided for over 72 years. A achievement you appear only too willing to overlook. It is why the DPRK has not repeated it's disasterous effect to take over the ROK. It is why Kuwait is still a free country. It is why Kosovo exists as an independent country. It is why East Timor is an independent country.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

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Serial Brain 9
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by Serial Brain 9 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:45 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:30 pm
The UN backing us against invasion? Did you drink your breakfast this morning Brian? :rofl

If for no other reason we are strategically very important to the US and if you think they would sit back and see us invaded by Indonesia, China or anyone else you are delusional.

Still :rofl :rofl :rofl
There’s also this other thing called NATO.

Shhhhh - Don’t let the cat out of the bag and make Brian look stupid :lol:
And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose.

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brian ross
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Re: Can Someone tell the UN to

Post by brian ross » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:50 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:30 pm
The UN backing us against invasion? Did you drink your breakfast this morning Brian? :rofl

If for no other reason we are strategically very important to the US and if you think they would sit back and see us invaded by Indonesia, China or anyone else you are delusional.

Still :rofl :rofl :rofl
The US intervenes in disputes because the US has reasons of it's own. If Australia became a nuclear free nation like New Zealand and demanded that the US withdraw it's bases from our soil, do you still think the US would consider us a strategic asset, Black Orchid? I don't. Australia has twice come close to that occurring. The UN OTOH, doesn't really care about the internal politics of it's member states. It would prefer everybody to be a democracy but as long as you sign on to the UN charter and don't make too much of a fuss about it or it's various declarations, they ignore what you're doing internally.

The UN is a collective security guarantee - all members states are required to guarantee the security of all other member states. It has helped the creation of new member states - Israel, Congo, Kosovo, Zimbabwe, East Timor to name a few more notable ones. It has helped transform some member states - South Africa springs to mind going from minority to majority rule. The UN has achieved a lot of good in the world. It has, since 1990 brought an end to more conflicts than it has seen created. It has, I am quite willing to admit, gotten things badly wrong. No organisation is perfect. No individual is perfect. However, we could go back to the chaos of big player politics if you want? Australia is a small power. Without a big player protector we would be helpless. Protectors tend to want to be paid, Black Orchid. You prepared for the price?

You appear to want to focus on only one part of the UN - the social organisations and not on the real UN - the Security Council for some obscure reason, Black Orchid. The UN consists of several parts - the Security Council - the big kids' playground where the real decisions are made. The General Assembly - the little kids' playground where not serious decisions are made. The social organisations - the places where things are done, such as looking after refugees, health programmes, etc. Finally there is the Secretariat, the place which organises all the other parts and keeps them working.
Nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism. - Eric Blair

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