Dual Citizenship

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The Mechanic
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by The Mechanic » Wed May 09, 2018 6:43 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:
Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:I think the law should be changed.

A dual citizen should not be a second class citizen.
I agree but only for dual citizens of western countries.
Why western countries -
surely they are closer to our values?
Bobby that is what I meant. Dual citizenship is fine by me with nations who share our values.

I would object to someone in a position of power who held dual citizenship with a ME country.
you could not say that western countries are exempt ....

its either all or nothing...

I say ALL...

otherwise we'll have Terrorist Arabs not denouncing their culture and beliefs ...

its simple...

denounce everything but Australian...

its not rocket surgery...
Beware the Fury of a Patient Man Q WWG1WGA ▄︻╦デ╤一

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Bobby
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by Bobby » Wed May 09, 2018 6:44 pm

Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:
Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:I think the law should be changed.

A dual citizen should not be a second class citizen.
I agree but only for dual citizens of western countries.
Why western countries -
surely they are closer to our values?
Bobby that is what I meant. Dual citizenship is fine by me with nations who share our values.

I would object to someone in a position of power who held dual citizenship with a ME country.

Yes - OK that's why especially dual citizens from The UK & NZ - should be allowed -
I mean for God's sake - we even have the same head of state - the Queen of England.
Our law is all based on English common law -
we even speak the same language.

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Black Orchid
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by Black Orchid » Wed May 09, 2018 6:55 pm

The Mechanic wrote:
Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:
Black Orchid wrote:
Bobby wrote:I think the law should be changed.

A dual citizen should not be a second class citizen.
I agree but only for dual citizens of western countries.
Why western countries -
surely they are closer to our values?
Bobby that is what I meant. Dual citizenship is fine by me with nations who share our values.

I would object to someone in a position of power who held dual citizenship with a ME country.
you could not say that western countries are exempt ....

its either all or nothing...

I say ALL...

otherwise we'll have Terrorist Arabs not denouncing their culture and beliefs ...

its simple...

denounce everything but Australian...

its not rocket surgery...
Yes I know which is why it does need to be abolished for parliamentarians. We can't, unfortunately, be selective.

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Rorschach
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by Rorschach » Thu May 10, 2018 8:53 am

But Bill told us time and time again that there were no Labor Pollies who would fail the test they had rolled gold processes.

Trust this guy? :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Rorschach
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by Rorschach » Thu May 10, 2018 9:46 am

Citizenship debacle: great Labor sham exposed by the High Court’s ruling
The Australian
12:00AM May 10, 2018
Paul Kelly

The great Labor citizenship sham exploded yesterday in the High Court. Labor’s litany of assurances over eight months about the eligibility of its MPs was exposed as utterly false — the upshot being four new by-elections, with the Turnbull government having an outside chance of winning an extra seat.

Bill Shorten’s credibility has been shredded. He is exposed after using a false argument to protect his own side from properly honouring constitutional obligations. Having comprehensively outplayed Labor on the dual-citizenship issue, Attorney-General Christian Porter charged Shorten and his legal affairs spokesman Mark Dreyfus with adopting defences they knew to be wrong.

Labor MPs who were dual citizens have been sitting in the parliament, drawing salaries, claiming entitlements, denying they were ineligible, refusing to refer themselves to the High Court and operating under the firm guidance of Shorten and Dreyfus.

Porter ridiculed as “utter rubbish” the justification that Shorten and each of the Labor MPs offered yesterday — that Labor was caught out because the High Court had enunciated a new legal position in the test case when it found against Labor senator Katy Gallagher.

“This decision is not a reinterpretation or a change of the law,” Porter said yesterday, assaulting Labor’s excuse for months of ­denial.

“It is a crisp and crystal-clear clarification of the law as it was stated in the Canavan decision in October of last year.”

Porter said yesterday while Shorten was under no obligation to release Labor’s legal advice, “he should at least tell us who the lawyers were in the interest of consumer protection”.

He said the claims made by Dreyfus had been “deliberately designed to mischaracterise High Court decisions and mislead the Australian people.”

After the High Court decision, Porter said the other four MPs who were dual citizens at the time of their nomination “must resign” and “they must resign today” and that Shorten could no longer avoid the issue.

The result was that at lunchtime yesterday, Labor MPs Justine Keay, Josh Wilson and Susan Lamb, along with Centre Alliance and former Nick Xenophon Team MP Rebekah Sharkie, announced they would resign and recontest the by-elections.

This ended eight months of Shorten claims that no Labor MP was ineligible as a dual citizen, that Labor had a strict vetting process and that he could “guarantee” no Labor MP was compromised.

Labor had been prepared to refer its MPs to the High Court only if the government matched this by referring some of its own MPs.

What is the basis of Porter’s claim that Shorten and Dreyfus were offering defences that were wrong and that they knew to be wrong?

It lies in the High Court decision. The court said in the Gallagher case: “The Attorney-­General’s primary submission is clearly correct. It reflects the law as stated in Sykes v Cleary and Re Canavan.”

In short, as Porter argued yesterday, the court restated in the Gallagher case the position it had previously stated. The pivotal issue was Gallagher’s defence that because she had taken all reasonable steps to renounce British citizenship, this would suffice to meet the constitutional requirement. The court rejected this argument.

Addressing this, Porter said: “We have now gone through an arduous and agonising process over six months to confirm what we knew and that is this: if a person is a dual citizen of another country after the date of close of nomin­ations, then that person is ineligible to sit in the commonwealth ­parliament and the only existing exception to that very clear line that the High Court drew in Oct­ober of last year is if the foreign country makes it impossibly difficult to renounce.”

Britain is not such a country. The point is the “reasonable steps” defence relates only to jurisdictions that make renouncing of citizenship extremely difficult.

Porter was extremely confident in this case because he was guided by the High Court’s previous judgments. In its Gallagher judgment, the court said: “It is not sufficient that a person in her position has taken all steps reasonably required by the foreign law … for the exception to s44 (1) to apply.”

The court said the foreign jurisdiction must operate to “irremediably” prevent the renouncing of citizenship. Referring to the frequent defence of Gallagher made by Dreyfus on the grounds she had taken the “reasonable steps” required, Porter said: “That was wrong, he knew it to be wrong, he maintained that position over the intervening six months and it was absolutely wrong.”

Yet it was convenient because it served as Labor’s justification for not acting. “Bill Shorten said the Labor Party had ‘extremely stringent vetting processes’,” Porter said. “That is absurdly wrong and it was maintained during that intervening six months.”

He said the Gallagher judgment “confirms the law as we have known it to be since last October”.

This is why Porter, as ­Attorney-General, opposed the government using its numbers earlier to impose on Labor and refer Labor MPs to the High Court. He believed this was unnecessary — far better to await the court’s decision and see Labor driven to its humiliating ­accounting process. This is exactly what has happened.

Many senior ALP figures believed their own propaganda on the dual-citizenship question. The reality is that Labor sought to prevaricate and deny its obligations. It has been a shoddy episode. The MPs involved who announced their resignations yesterday are still in denial. Their explanations yesterday about the High Court decision are false and misleading.

In the end Labor will probably be re-elected in all by-elections. This includes the Perth by-election caused by Tim Hammond’s earlier, separate resig­nation for family reasons. The government’s best chance is in Mayo but that would mean taking a seat from the Centre Alliance, not Labor.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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Rorschach
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by Rorschach » Thu May 10, 2018 9:48 am

Bobby wrote:I think the law should be changed.

A dual citizen should not be a second class citizen.
Nope.
if you want to be Australian then be Australian.
if you want to be in Australian politics then be Australian.
You cannot serve 2 masters.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

miketrees
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by miketrees » Thu May 10, 2018 10:06 am

I wonder how many more rolled gold guarantees Shorten has in the closet?

sprintcyclist
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by sprintcyclist » Thu May 10, 2018 10:39 am

Shorten started this all off.

It has cost a lot of money, been disruptive to the running of Australia, had no net upside, has backfired on him.

the labor party are not interested in what is good for Australia.
Only what is bad for their opposition.
Right Wing is the Natural Progression.

cods
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by cods » Thu May 10, 2018 11:28 am

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/ ... 246bacf211

BILL Shorten has ­refused to apologise for his repeated claims that no Labor politicians could be dual citizens because of the party’s strict vetting processes.

The Labor leader has been left with egg on his face after the High Court ruled Labor Senator Katy Gallagher was ineligible to sit in Parliament because she had failed to renounce her British citizenship by the 2016 federal election — a story first revealed by The Daily Telegraph in ­November.
The judgment triggered the immediate resignation of four more politicians — Labor MPs Justine Keay, Josh Wilson and Susan Lamb along with crossbencher Rebekha Sharkie. They all plan to ­recontest their seats in a super-Saturday of by-elections, expected to be held next month. The Liberal Party is planning to contest Ms Keay’s Tasmanian seat of Braddon, Ms Lamb’s Queensland seat of Longman and Ms Sharkie’s South Australian seat, Mayo, recently held by the Liberals, which are all marginal. But the Turnbull Government is unlikely to run a candidate in Mr Wilson’s Western Australian seat of Fremantle.

Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull said it was not right the three Labor MPs who were ineligible to sit in Parliament were still using taxpayer entitlements as they refused to quit before Friday.

“They have said they are ineligible, they have acknowledged they are ineligible and they still have not resigned, so they are drawing salaries and using MPs entitlements,” Mr Turnbull told ABC radio today.

For 10 months, Mr Shorten has repeatedly claimed none of his MPs could possibly be dual citizens because of Labor’s airtight vetting process for political candidates.

“We have a strict vetting process. There is no cloud over any of our people, let’s be straight here,” he said in ­August in Sydney.
Mr Shorten repeated the line whenever he was asked about a Labor politician’s ­potential foreign citizenship.

He even rejected Prime Minister Malcolm Turnbull’s request in August to refer all politicians with any questions over their citizenship status to the High Court.

While agreeing it was “manifestly in the national ­interest” for the High Court to determine eligibility, Mr Shorten wrote: “The Labor Party has the strictest processes in place to ensure all candidates are compliant with the Constitution prior to their nomination for election. Therefore, I politely decline your offer.”

Still, Mr Shorten used the opportunity to attack Mr Turnbull, writing the citizenship issue “goes to the legitimacy and integrity of your Government”.

In an embarrassing performance yesterday, Mr Shorten offered no apology or any semblance of regret for misleading the public.

Instead, 11 times he blamed the ALP’s lawyers and said the High Court had set a new precedent....CAN HE TELL US WHEN THEY CHANGED THE CONSTITUTION.. :rofl :rofl :rofl

“At all times the Labor Party has acted in good faith. I have relied upon the legal advice provided to me by the Labor Party,” he said.

The High Court’s judgment makes it clear Labor’s interpretation was flawed.

It was a point the court clarified in the case of ­Nationals Senator Matt Canavan in October.
“It is not sufficient for the exception to section 44 to apply for a person to have made reasonable efforts to renounce,” the judgment says.

“In (the Canavan judgment) it was explicitly said that the majority ... did not suggest that a candidate who made a reasonable effort to comply with section 44 was thereby exempt from compliance with it.”


The Telegraph revealed Ms Gallagher may have been a UK citizen when she nominated for the election, sending in her renunciation form only weeks before voting began.

This newspaper reported in August that Ms Gallagher never renounced her entitlement to Ecuadorean citizenship because her mother was born there.

It is understood the Ecuadorean Embassy has still not cleared Ms Gallagher of being a citizen, despite Labor’s frantic efforts.


WHAT IS IT WITH LEFTIES... THEY NEVER EVER ADMIT THEY MADE A MISTAKE....EVEN WHEN ITS IN BLACK AND WHITE.......

mellie
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Re: Dual Citizenship

Post by mellie » Thu May 10, 2018 12:01 pm

There's plenty of MPs who's duality of citizenship is questionable, oddly enough there appears to be some cherry picking going on.
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