Private or Public Schools?

[mellie]

There's always GAMSAT.

My concern with artificially inflated HSC scores is just that.

Artificial.

We've all been on the receiving end of an incompetent health professional, imagine an entire hospital emergency department full of them.

Is this what you really want to face when you stroke out and roll into the resus bay out the back of an ambulance?

What's worse, a vast majority of our home grown staff are heading to the UK, so are relying more and more on imported staff on work contracts with temporary visas.

Getting back to the topic at hand, no, I think we need to screen university applicants more discerningly, and consider the possibility that the very reason these coached kids start flunking and repeating unit's at uni is because they really shouldn't be there to begin with.

Are we going to provide them with coaching at uni, and in their workplace too?

What we need is genuinely gifted people filling university spots, not full fee paying international students and coached domestic brats who repeatedly fail,unit's and have to resit anyway.

Our universities are becoming a bit of an international joke anyway.

[mellie]

Coaching is also an arms race of sorts.

You may have a bright child but without coaching they'll miss a selective place to a similar child who's had exam practice.

True, particularly so in disadvantaged area's like Sydney's western suburbs where failing Kings school, their only hope is a selective school.


I just don't have the solution, because even if we started IQ testing them before highschool, parents would find a way around coaching them for this too, and they'd artificially achieve a spot based on the practice effect.

Perhaps these tutoring companies need to be shut down, because they're making it harder and harder to spot the dummies

[mellie]

Coaching is also an arms race of sorts.

You may have a bright child but without coaching they'll miss a selective place to a similar child who's had exam practice.

True, particularly so in disadvantaged area's like Sydney's western suburbs where failing Kings school, their only hope is a selective school.


I just don't have the solution, because even if we started IQ testing them before highschool, parents would find a way around coaching them for this too, and they'd artificially achieve a spot based on the practice effect.

Perhaps these tutoring companies need to be shut down, because they're making it harder and harder to spot the dummies

Let's call it what it is, privileged cheatery.

It's unfortunate, but is the way it is now. Selective schools and good private schools are highly competitive and Selective.

[Gordon]

Millie, lots of things to cover.

Firstly, medical school. It's my understanding they are now looking for more well rounded people, not just a brains in a jars.
They want to see that applicants have a good range of co-curricular activities so they have people that can relate to other people.

On coaching, I was always philosophically against it but as my daughter progressed thru primary it was very clear the school was failing her by not providing more advanced work. We sourced extra material but by year five it was clear we couldn't do it all ourselves.

As I mentioned before, the coaching she has was just bloody awesome and the material and methods were fantastic. Her only weak spot before coaching was English comprehension (it was just out of the top band) is now firmly in the top 5%. Her maths is not only faster but recently her teacher told me she approaches maths with a maturity many years above her age.

Yes our main objective of coaching was for her to 100% ensure she aced her selective exams as we're part of the arms race, but when I reflect on it, the main thing she got was just fantastic teachers who are there to teach focused and switched on kids. It filled the deficit of her primary school.

On selective schools, I'd get rid of them all and just put all the effort into advanced learning streams in ALL public schools.

[mellie]

Fantastic outcome you had with your daughter, and I agree, re- getting rid of selective schools.

Having advanced classes in all schools sounds like a better idea.

[Rorschach]

Well factually we all know private schools are better resourced over all.
But there are public schools that do better than some private schools, but then public schools cant be choosey and select their students.
We also have selective High Schools where for many years Asian pupils have been taking over population-wise and we all surely remember the amount of time these students are made to put into their schooling to get there and also the not so honest methods that some of those coaching facilities adopted to get their student in. Not only were they specifically targetting past tests they also acquired current tests and answers. This of course greatly advantaged them in the results department.
Mel made a good point re IQ scores... in most cases a student who practices IQ tests and questions of the kind will in fact increase their IQ score. the more you do the better you get at them. That doesn't mean you are actually getting smarter or more intelligent.

Re Funding... Private should be Private and Public should be Public.

[mellie]

And just to be clear, my first born was declared "academically gifted" in NSW Kindergarten, (prep in Victoria) and grade accelerated to year 2 at the end of Kindergarten. We also did the tutoring thing...he attended multiple tuition companies, ended going with Kip McGrath, he aced his selective highschool assessment.

He works in IT, though really his flare was maths and science.
Mathematics came easy, science he simply adored.

I completely get why you have gone down the coaching track, simply because "selective schools" dictates we must, if we stand any chance in hell of our truly gifted kids reaching their full potential.

Theres a difference between gifted and talented.


======

Please excuse my typos, I post via my phone.

[Gordon]

And just to be clear, my first born was declared "academically gifted" in NSW Kindergarten, (prep in Victoria) and grade accelerated to year 2 at the end of Kindergarten. We also did the tutoring thing...he attended multiple tuition companies, ended going with Kip McGrath, he aced his selective highschool assessment.

He works in IT, though really his flare was maths and science.
Mathematics came easy, science he simply adored.

I completely get why you have gone down the coaching track, simply because "selective schools" dictates we must, if we stand any chance in hell of our truly gifted kids reaching their full potential.

Theres a difference between gifted and talented.


======

Please excuse my typos, I post via my phone.

Yeah mine is by no means a pure academic and she does well because she's so enthusiastic. She'd never get a pure academic scholarship and her selective test will probably just get her into a wholly selective school but easily into a partially selective.

Her strength is she's a total all rounder. We're talking piano grade 6, always makes regional and district for athletics/swimming, ace netballer and a shit hot surfer

I have no doubt if we made her devote all her time to study, she'd be right at the top, but I'm not Indian or Chinese

[Black Orchid]

Firstly, medical school. It's my understanding they are now looking for more well rounded people, not just a brains in a jars. They want to see that applicants have a good range of co-curricular activities so they have people that can relate to other people.

Medicine is one of the major problems here. The Universities are full of paid up Chinese and Indians who spend 24/7 studying just for a mark. This is producing a majority of Doctors who have no patient/social skills. Selective schools, on route to medicine, are much the same.

In the past you either worked hard and cut it or you didn't but having to compete now against all these foreign students is something that we, in the past, did not have to contend with.

My GP was complaining to me yesterday about how many Chinese and Indian Doctors we are bringing in here annually and I don't know about the east but in the north we are swamped, and I mean SWAMPED, with medical practices brimming over with foreign Doctors who are only in it for the money. My Doctor went into medicine because she cares about people. She is a sole practitioner, bulk bills everyone regardless of income and it is nothing for her to spend an hour with you. When she is unsure she says so and sends you to someone who specialises instead of just guessing. She is a far cry from these medical practices who shoo you in and out in under 10 minutes just for a buck.

Until the government realises the error of its ways and makes changes to stop this the dedicated Aussies who want to study medicine have little hope of achieving that unless they also put in the 24/7 book study to get the best marks. It's not that they are less smart than the foreign students but it's a matter of having to fight fire with fire if they want the places.

[Gordon]

I've been seeing the same few doctors for 20 years but the occasional midnight visit to the ED with an sick child no probs.

I hope the situation is being addressed tho.