Petrol excise vs road tax

[Super Nova]

I've long been an advocate for petrol taxes. I don't think electric cars will change that any time soon. Hybrids still use petrol.

The amount you pay should reflect the true cost you impose. For maintenance costs, fuel use is a very good indicator of the damage, and I believe the big trucks do most of it. Rural roads do cost a lot more per user. If a user-pays system leads to some rationalisation there, that is also a good thing.

Tolls are the worst option. They have to go out of their way to make the roads less convenient - fewer off and on ramps, etc - and the administrative cost is enormous.

FD, hybrids still tear up the road the same. When electric get better and they use nearly no fuel, the revenue will drop.

We cannot just rely on the petrol heads to pay for everything.

You cannot tax car electricity the same way so the only way is tolls. Modern tolls do not have to be intrusive. I hate tolls but see no alternative.

[Black Orchid]

Modern tolls do not have to be intrusive.

But they are. Sydney tolls are over the top The Sydney Harbour Bridge was paid off in 1988 and we still have to pay to cross it.

[freediver]

Not if you live there out of necessity and cant move back to a big city where you don't need to travel far to ammenities.

No-one is forced to live where they do Rorshach. It is always a choice, and the government should not subsidise one over the other.

You cannot tax car electricity the same way so the only way is tolls. Modern tolls do not have to be intrusive. I hate tolls but see no alternative.

There are plenty of alternatives to tolls. The obvious one is fuel taxes.

[Super Nova]

How do you put a fuel tax on electricity is my point.

[Rorschach]

I think the user should pay!

So you travel to work long distances, then you are a big user so you should pay

The same as big trucks should pay more because of the wear and tear they do to the roads

Me as an example has a car that is over 11years old with 113000Km on the clock. ( Around 10000K /year). Should I pay the same as someone doing three times that per year? No way!

Is it fair that someone who has to travel and hour in regional Australia or more have to pay more for that necessity than those in big cities that have to travel 15 minutes or less, on top of what they already pay for petrol and considering petrol in the regions is also more expensive than that of cities also?

[Rorschach]

Oh and another point.... less traffic in the regions than in the cities... less wear and tear then eh...

[mantra]

I've long been an advocate for petrol taxes. I don't think electric cars will change that any time soon. Hybrids still use petrol.

The amount you pay should reflect the true cost you impose. For maintenance costs, fuel use is a very good indicator of the damage, and I believe the big trucks do most of it. Rural roads do cost a lot more per user. If a user-pays system leads to some rationalisation there, that is also a good thing.

Tolls are the worst option. They have to go out of their way to make the roads less convenient - fewer off and on ramps, etc - and the administrative cost is enormous.

As most of the toll roads are privately owned in NSW, we will never see an end to tolls here. Motorists who have to travel a long distance will be hit with every tax imaginable. The average person doesn't always have a choice as to where they can live unfortunately and in regional Australia there aren't that many jobs available so Sydney is their only option for work. If Wollongong and Newcastle had decent train services - then there would be fewer cars on the roads, but the trains now are actually slower and more unreliable than they were 30 years ago. As the population has increased, rail services have decreased. Driving is often the only option for someone who wants to keep their average paying job.

[Rorschach]

Not if you live there out of necessity and cant move back to a big city where you don't need to travel far to ammenities.

No-one is forced to live where they do Rorshach. It is always a choice, and the government should not subsidise one over the other. What a load of crap... try building another disingenuous strawman why don't you. We all can't live at number 11 oxford st Sydney.

You cannot tax car electricity the same way so the only way is tolls. Modern tolls do not have to be intrusive. I hate tolls but see no alternative.

There are plenty of alternatives to tolls. The obvious one is fuel taxes.

[freediver]

Is it fair that someone who has to travel and hour in regional Australia or more have to pay more for that necessity than those in big cities that have to travel 15 minutes or less, on top of what they already pay for petrol and considering petrol in the regions is also more expensive than that of cities also?

Of course it is fair, because you do not 'have' to. You are responsible for your own choices. It is actually far easier for someone living in a regional area to living within walking distance or a very short drive from work. I understand that personal circumstances may preclude this, or at least appear to, but the true cost of all that extra driving should be part of those circumstances, otherwise the govenment is subsidising unsustainable lifestyle choices.

The only people who truly do not have a choice are those who are in jail. The rest merely think they do not.

Oh and another point.... less traffic in the regions than in the cities... less wear and tear then eh...

Yes, and the government will get far less tax money on account of the lower traffic. If anything regional users should be paying more.

As most of the toll roads are privately owned in NSW, we will never see an end to tolls here. Motorists who have to travel a long distance will be hit with every tax imaginable.

The vast majority of motorists completely avoid tolls in their daily travels.

The average person doesn't always have a choice as to where they can live unfortunately

Yes they do.

What a load of crap... try building another disingenuous strawman why don't you.

It is not a strawman. It is what both you and mantra are arguing. For example

Is it fair that someone who has to travel and hour

The average person doesn't always have a choice as to where they can live

But you are correct that it is BS.

We all can't live at number 11 oxford st Sydney.

We can't all work there either. But those who do work there (by their own choice of course) should rightly be expected to pay the costs associated with getting there from wherever they live (again, by their own choice).

[cods]

they could of course make public transport more available lets say 24/7...which it isnt right now..

if they drive all motorists off the road what does that achieve????>..

motorists have long been their cash cow...and now its starting to bite them..

what a shame!!!!

I am more inclined to tell them to tighten their belts..and be more accountable

can anyone imagine the money all govts reap just from motorists.. or anyone that uses the roads...it must be massive...



you know for people in Europe riding bikes is the norm...no matter the weather they are out there.
in Denmark they have right of way. they have their own traffic lights.. and they take them on all public transport....at railway stations there is all sort of parking for bikes.. forget about looking to park a car....they have special ledges on escalators for you to put your bike on so you dont have to carry it up or down.....everyone has a bike...

what on earth would our govts do if this happened here?????????..

I hate to say it but if they start charging by the road use they will kill this cash cow..