Terrorist attacks in France

[Neferti]

While it is a tragedy in France, these bastards are raping and killing people everywhere they go.

If it takes an atrocity like this for us to wake up and rid the world of this evil it shows the west has no moral ground until we are attacked.

Time to understand these guys propose a world that would be much worst than Hitler's vision. They are worse than the Japanese in WWII.

We need to put the same effort behind WWII to rid the world of them, wherever they are.

Time for a one world government.... with me as president... don't you think.

I remember quite well, a good (male) friend of mine denigrating Muslims. This was maybe 10-15 years ago. He is a lawyer, Irish and also votes Labor, so I didn't take too much notice at the time. We always agreed to disagree on certain subjects.

It is getting worse and Governments are kow towing to the Muslims. I guess until we have a major "terrorist attack" in Australia, the leftards will remain in denial.

Stating that "Muslims" are normal citizens is a misnomer ... ask anyone who lives in Sydney. They are infiltrating the whole of Australia. Multiculturalism does NOT work and certainly not with this lot.

PLEASE do NOT import any more Muslim "asylum seekers".

Turnbull is pathetic. He is now agreeing with Obama who is a Muslim, or at least was brought up in a Muslim environment.

[Super Nova]

Obama who is a Muslim

Propaganda and not true.

The issue is not Islam. The issue is extremists and murderers doing things that they claim are in the name of Islam.

They want a war with the west so they can progressively get all of Islam to rise against the west then take over the world.

This is what everyone is afraid of. I say, give them the war against ISIS.

[Super Nova]

So the US needs anpother 9/11 to get involved properly.

• President Obama stood by his decision not to send US troops to fight Isis;

Article: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/worl ... 615899.ece

[Rorschach]

Waleed Aly, love won’t conquer Islamic State
The Australian
November 17, 2015 11:00AM
Chris Kenny
Associate Editor (National Affairs)

When love and unity are your central message you cloak yourself with a degree of immunity from criticism, which is precisely why Waleed Aly and populist politicians preach only compassion in the face of Islamist atrocities.

Unity and national cohesion are important but are hardly under threat.

Time and again we hear the call in the wake of Islamist terrorism attacks that the community must not respond with hatred against all Muslims. And time and again, aside from isolated incidents (and even fabricated events to spur an “I’ll ride with you” hashtag), the Australian community, and others, show nothing but common sense and cohesion.

In Paris on the weekend, just as they did in response to Charlie Hebdo in January, people took to the streets in a show of solidarity and defiance.

They didn’t need television hosts and politicians to instruct them.


Our politicians and populist commentators concentrate on the unity message because it skirts around the tough issues. It is a form of evasion.

They want to offer us a thought we can all agree on – a head nod – and avoid putting themselves in the position of delivering unpalatable truths or difficult messages.

Aly’s sermon on The Project last night has gone viral, as they say, and to the young and naive and to the forever apologetic Green Left, it offers a comforting message that love will conquer the suicide bomber and the terrorist with an AK-47.

Yet by trumpeting this message at the expense of talking about the ideology of Islamist extremism that permeates the globe and motivates these indiscriminate killings, Aly and others deliver a message that amplifies the propaganda of the ideologues.

Aly’s core element of truth is that the terrorists want to foment division.

But he echoes their logic by suggesting it is the reaction of the broader community that sows division; that hatred somehow comes from our reaction to terrorism rather than the terror itself.

And he offers as evidence the flimsiest of former political fringe dwellers in Pauline Hanson who, for all her apparent intolerance, is hardly a mainstream voice and merely reflects fear and uncertainty at random acts of violence.

By suggesting that the broader public in western countries would turn on Muslims, politicians and commentators feed the narrative of Muslim grievance that terrorists use to motivate their followers and recruit extremists.

It is not a huge leap from this sort of mealy-mouthed reaction to the disgraceful response from the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohammed, whose prepared statement in response to the Paris attacks did not clearly denounce the terror but suggested western acts and attitudes had played a role in triggering the bloodshed.

And there are still too many in politics and public debate who take these arguments of Muslim grievance at face value.

These grievances are propaganda devices, not true motivating factors.

The Islamist extremists don’t truly care what happens to Muslims in Australia or France, what happens to Palestinians or what cartoons are published anywhere.

Their aim is absolute: it is to defeat the non-Muslim world, to defeat diversity, plurality, democracy, equality and freedom of expression.

They cannot be satisfied except by conversion and submission to Sharia law under a global caliphate.

Aly knows this. He is a learned and intelligent communicator.

So it is disingenuous for him to talk down the threat of Islamic State.

We know they could be defeated by a ground army; but we also know the world is too cowed to act in that way.

And we know this would not eliminate the extreme ideology motivating Islamists in the Middle East and other parts of the world.

The fact that lone wolf attacks in Western countries might have no direct connection to Islamic State is neither here nor there.

In fact, aside from their slaughter in Syria and Iraq, and their direct involvement in other atrocities, the real horror of this group is that by establishing their so-called caliphate they have provided inspiration to Islamist extremists around the world.

Whether or not the individual terrorists learned their craft from Islamic State, were inspired by them or used their notoriety as a flag of convenience matters little to the people at the end of the weapon or the communities so terrorised.

And to narrow the debate down to Islamic State is also to avoid the real problem of Islamist terrorism that threatens Nigerians under the banner of Boko Harem, Kenyans under the banner of al Shabaab, Indonesians under the banner of Jemmah Islamiah, Afghans under the Taliban, Israelis attacked by Hamas or global travellers who fear al Qa’ida.

This is the pernicious threat we live with.

This is why – without any real divisions becoming evident in our societies – we have learned to live with x-ray screenings at airports, security checks at sports events, new intrusions on our communications, restrictions on our travel and the omnipresence of heavily armed security where once there were unarmed police.

The numbers of Islamist extremists are small – even within the disparate Muslim communities – and Muslims are as likely to be their victims as the rest of us.

But love – important as it is – will not conquer this challenge. And nor will denial.

[Super Nova]

Roach... that article tells it as it is. great find.

Here is another on their thinking. Time to wake up.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/worl ... 615744.ece

This is a credo based on punishment

If you want to strike at the sinful west, you pick a Friday night. While devout Muslims are fresh from prayer, young Parisian non-believers are knocking back the booze.

Islamic State killers made their point about the clash of civilisations: frustrated young men ready to blow up revellers of a similar age because they are seen as representatives of a corrupt society in terminal decline.

The Isis attack on Paris was not an act of weakness, a distraction from a few setbacks on the battlefield in Syria and Iraq. Rather it is a long-established, cool-headed urban guerrilla strategy grafted on to the sense of righteous anger that suffuses the jihadis returning to Europe from the Middle East wars.

It was a show of strength that will have enthused would-be jihadis in the suburbs of Paris and Brussels. A poll last year of French people aged between 18 and 24 showed that one in four has a favourable opinion of Isis. Only around 7.5 per cent of the French population is Muslim.

Massacres do perversely fuel recruitment but Isis is more than a death cult. Its credo is based on punishment. Every encroachment on its power attracts retribution. Thus Russia is punished for its air campaign by a bomb on a Russian passenger jet leaving Sharm el-Sheikh. Kurds are punished for closing a Turkish-Syrian border crossing used by Isis by the slaughter of civilians in Kobani.

Isis also has its own form of deterrence theory. If France had maintained its scepticism towards the US then it would not now be in Isis’ sights. The killing spree was an explicit punishment for François Hollande’s war against Isis in Syria.

It was an attempt to drive a wedge between a government ready to make war and voters who feel that Syria is not their war of choice.

When al-Qaeda bomb attacks killed almost 200 people in Madrid in 2004, popular disillusion with a US-led war prompted a change of government and the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq. Isis is hoping for a similar effect in France.

It has gone beyond moral retribution and positioned itself as a player in French, perhaps European, politics. Do what we want, Isis is saying, and we won’t touch you.

Isis considers itself to be the servant of the Prophet Muhammad and yet it plays God. When it claimed responsibility for the Paris assault, it warned that “the smell of death won’t leave their [French] noses as long as they partake in their crusader campaign”.

Isis reinterprets every modern thinker about insurgent warfare to match its strategy. It gives itself momentum by sowing chaos across continents. It says it wants to destroy the “grey zone” of moderation and give Sunnis a black and white choice: either support us or be lumped with western unbelievers.

A key part of its strategy is borrowed from the leftist teachings that informed South American guerrillas and the West German Baader-Meinhof group of the 1970s, the “Strategy of Tension”. Provoke governments into taking repressive actions and then capitalise on the resulting sense of disgruntlement.

That is the war of the future, of the present. Campaigns against the Baader-Meinhof group lasted for decades. It looks, after Paris, as if the war against Isis could be in a similar category.


Military options

Increased airstrikes
They can support ground forces but not replace them. An expansion of airstrikes would increase pressure on Isis but risks collateral damage

Increased special forces
They could help co-ordinate an air campaign and strike with night raids at the leadership structures of Isis

Troops on the ground
Unlikely as it risks casualties

Grand coalition
Fighting with Russia alongside Sunni regional powers and President Assad. Working with Assad would be politically unacceptable though

[Rorschach]

Paris attacks: Mufti slammed for pushing ‘victim mentality’
The Australian|
November 17, 2015 10:02AM|
Jared OwensI
Reporter
Canberra

Senior Liberal ministers Scott Morrison and Peter Dutton have called on the Grand Mufti of Australia, Ibrahim Abu Mohammed, to come out and clearly condemn the Paris terrorist attacks “without reservation”.

Dr Abu Mohammed has been accused of promoting a “victim mentality” among extremists by claiming the violence was provoked by discontent at racism, Islamophobia, security laws and foreign policy decisions.

Mr Dutton, the Immigration Minister, urged the Sunni leader to clarify his comments.

“These acts need to be condemned for what they are – they’ve been condemned by Muslim leaders around the world and they should be condemned here in Australia by the leadership ... as well,” Mr Dutton told Sydney radio station 2GB.

“The opportunity is there today for the Grand Mufti to come out and clarify his comments and make it very clear that he condemns these acts of terrorism, these murderous acts, without reservation, as other leaders have done.

“The Grand Mufti would do well to listen to what some of the moderate leaders had to say because they’ve remained the hope of the side, if we’re to combat some of this wrong thinking within the community.”

Mr Morrison, the Treasurer, said his Muslim friends were “disappointed” in Dr Abu Mohammed’s comments.

“I would encourage him I think to come out and clarify what his statement said. I was very disappointed for Australian Muslims yesterday, I thought Australian Muslims were let down by the Mufti yesterday,” he told Melbourne radio station 3AW.

“I think we’ve got into a much more, I think, mature discussion about these very complicated issues and I think Australian Muslims would have been disappointed in those comments – certainly those who I have close relationships with were – and I really urge him to listen to his own community on this and to reflect their views.”

Government MPs have accused Australia’s Grand Mufti, Ibrahim Abu Mohammed, of promoting a “victim mentality” among extremists by claiming the Paris violence was provoked by discontent at ­racism, Islamophobia, security laws and foreign policy decisions.

The comments came as senior Liberal MPs applauded moderate Muslims for condemning terrorism and warned against alienating Muslims, who were “fellow ­citizens”.

In a statement, Dr Abu ­Mohammed and the Australian ­National Imams Council offered “deepest condolences” for survivors of the Paris attacks and stressed the “sanctity of human life”. “These recent incidents highlight the fact that current strategies to deal with the threat of terrorism are not working,” the statement said. “It is therefore imperative that all causative factors, such as racism, Islamophobia, curtailing freedoms through securitisation, duplicitous foreign policies and military intervention, must be comprehensively addressed.” Apologist wankers with hidden agendas and foreign allegiances should be deported.

Philip Ruddock, the government’s special envoy for citizenship and community engagement, said Australia was the world’s most successful multicultural ­society but he feared the cleric’s comments sent the wrong message about extremism. “We want to be as inclusive as possible with ­social cohesion, but equally there can be no justification for terrorism and this victim mentality that somehow we are entitled to defend terrorism because of Islam­ophobia,” Mr Ruddock told The Australian. “I reject that past engagements involving the removal of gross human rights abusers such as Saddam Hussein, who had no hesitation of using chemical weapons, in some ways justifies some people in believing they have to ­attack us and our society.”

Liberal MP Andrew Nikolic said it was “naive and misconceived” to believe that Islamic State radicals could be “appeased”.

“ISIL’s strategy is to form a caliphate, a centre of strength from which they will either expand their domination into the broader world or die,” Mr Nikolic said. “This isn’t about rational actors or people you can negotiate with or people you can appease.”

Queensland Liberal National Party MP George Christensen branded the Grand Mufti’s comments a “disgusting” example of “playing the victim card”. “People from all walks of life disagree with government across a myriad of ­issues,” Mr Christensen said. “They don’t take to the streets and start shooting people as a result.”

Liberal senator Cory Bernardi said the comments were “reminiscent of the same vile rhetoric following the 9/11 tragedies … blaming the US and Western culture to justify the atrocities that were committed then, just like the Grand Mufti has sought to now.”

Attorney-General George Brandis said alienating Muslims would be “the worst thing we could do” in the aftermath of the Paris ­attacks. “They are our fellow citizens, and they are our necessary partners in combating this menace,” he told ABC radio. “The fact that a very small minority of fanatics defy the teachings of the ­Islamic religion by engaging in terrorist crime … should not reflect upon the Muslim community.”

Labor MP Maria Vamvakinou said mainstream Islamic leaders needed to voice the concerns of their communities, or risk driving young people into the hands of extremists. “It’s important that these concerns are not festering behind closed doors where people can use them as a narrative to manipulate more impressionable younger people,” said the member for Calwell, the electorate with the largest Muslim population in Victoria.

“I think he (Dr Abu Mohammed) is trying to articulate something and I think a lot of people who read and follow international news will understand what he’s trying to say.”

Scott Morrison, interviewed on Sydney talkback radio, said he ­appreciated that lay Muslims were calling in to distance themselves from Dr Abu Mohammed.

Labor’s Tony Burke, whose seat includes Sydney’s Muslim centre of Lakemba, said his constituents had “experienced the same shock and distress as the rest of Australia” following the atrocities in Paris.

“I don’t often find myself complimenting George Brandis, but he was correct to point to our success as a multicultural nation and the importance of maintaining that cohesion now,” Mr Burke said.

Labor frontbencher Jason Clare offered “heartfelt sympathies” to the people of France on behalf of his western Sydney electorate of Blaxland.

[Neferti]

So the US needs another 9/11 to get involved properly.

Most of those who died on 9/11 were NOT Americans. They were people working in those buildings and came from a variety of countries.

America considers that they WON WW1 AND WW2 ... they didn't even get involved until they were "bombed" in both cases, YEARS after the War began.

Again, until there is another MAJOR Muslim attack, the POTUS (who was educated in a Muslim country) won't care but IF someone looks sideways at ISRAEL ............. the Jews are the ones who run the USA.

[Super Nova]

Good decision NSW. This should be adopted everywhere.

Shoot to Kill: New South Wales police issue new directive when dealing with terror suspects

http://www.msn.com/en-au/news/australia ... spartanntp

[boxy]

What Waleed actually said.

“There is a reason ISIL still want to appear so powerful, why they don’t want to acknowledge that the land they control has been taken from weak enemies, that they are pinned down by air strikes or that just last weekend they lost a significant part of their territory,”

“ISIL don’t want you to know they would quickly be crushed if they ever faced a proper Army on a battlefield.

“They want you to fear them. They want you to get angry. They want all of us to become hostile and here is why:

“ISIL’s strategy is to split the world into two camps. It is that black and white. Again we know this because they told us.”

Ally said ISIL wanted to create World War III, and for societies around the world to turn on each other, and for countries like Australia to vilify Muslims.

He said this “evil organisation” believes if they can make Muslims the enemy of the West, then Muslims in France and England and America and here in Australia will have nowhere to turn but to ISIL.

“That was exactly their strategy in Iraq, and now they want it to go global.

“Saying that out loud, it is both dumbfounding in its stupidity and bloodcurdling in its barbarity. “We are all feeling a million raging emotions right now. I am angry at these terrorists. I am sickened by the violence and I am crushed for the families that have been left behind, but, you know what, I will not be manipulated.

“We all need to come together. I know how that sounds. I know it is a cliche, but it is also true because it is exactly what ISIL doesn’t want.

“So, if you are a member of Parliament or a has-been member of Parliament preaching hate at a time when what we actually need is more love — you are helping ISIL. They have told us that. If you are a Muslim leader telling your community they have no place here or basically them saying the same thing — you are helping ISIL.

“They have told us that. If you are just someone with a Facebook or Twitter account firing off misguided messages of hate, you are helping ISIL — They have told us that.

“I am pretty sure that right now none of us wants to help these bastards.”

[Rorschach]

Well I know what he said and he's a sad excuse for an apologist and he's a Muslim and even though he thinks all of us getting together will stop the barbarism etc... he's a friggin fruitcake and needs a reality check. Or he could simply tell the truth and stop lying about stuff like the denialist he is.