The European refugee crisis

[mantra]

At some point the EU or the USA is going to have to take a military action to stem the flow of migrants. They are looking more and more like invaders rather than refugees. I suspect this affair will be the beginning of the end of Merkel and possibly the EU.

That's exactly what it seems like - an invasion.

Now Australia is talking about removing Syria’s Bashar al-Assad which will only exacerbate the violence. How many ME leaders have we removed in the past decade or so for the sake of democracy? All the Coalition of the Willing has done is left a huge mess for the rest of the world to clean up. There has to be another motive for their actions and it isn't for the sake of democracy, otherwise we would have learnt from our invasion of Iraq and the execution of Saddam. Obviously dictators are essential in the ME to keep these warring factions under control.

[IQS.RLOW]

You leftys were the first to whinge about human rights etc when Assad was chemically bombing his own people and demanding "the west" "do something"

[mantra]

I suspect this affair will be the beginning of the end of Merkel and possibly the EU.

Interestingly enough she claims she is doing this to also help fill the huge demand for workers in Germany. They have 600,000 job vacancies which they can't fill. These refugees don't look despondent and apparently are well educated, young and eager to work. Germany's birth rate is low - so she is attempting to kill two birds with one stone. It might work.



http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-09-09/e ... ng/6760756

You leftys were the first to whinge about human rights etc when Assad was chemically bombing his own people and demanding "the west" "do something"

Is it better they die from a nuclear bomb rather than a chemical bomb? We are in no position to throw stones at the actions of a nation's leader when our actions are no better.

[Rorschach]

Julie Bishop is talking about bombing Syria to halt ISIS - an impulsive reaction and one which would result in more innocent deaths and refugees. Haven't we learnt yet that targeting and killing one enemy can result in the death of hundreds of innocent people?

Oh dear more crap... we aren't targeting civillians, and we aren't killing them.

So bombs always hit the enemy, but never innocent civilians who happen to be in the vicinity? How many civilians were killed in Iraq even though the bombs weren't aimed at them? You give some ridiculous responses at times.

Educate yourself mantra and stop making spurious claims against our military.
Our pilots even refuse to bomb if they think it will result in civilian casualties.
Or don't you read the papers that print the truth?

[Rorschach]

Now we here the father was actually a People Smuggler...

[Black Orchid]

[Rorschach]

While I don't like taking refugees I suggest we have a responsibility to the people from countries we choose to bomb and go to war with.

We are not at war with Syria or Irag we are actually helping them both out.

The west has handle this whole region badly and this has led to the rise if ISIS.

Actually the IRAQI government handled it badly and Assad is having a civil war... ISIS and their Caliphate by the way is what many Muslims actually want.

That is not so. We are support the rebels against the Syrian regime. What a load of bullshit SN... we are not supporting anyone, we are ISIS centric. We are to cowardly to put our own people in to unseat him. it's a civil war in Syria why should we put our citizens in harms way. let them sort themselves out. Also because Russia would not support it so we are fighting a war by proxy again. A civil war we support with money and aid (and weapons). We are not supporting or supplying anyone. You are full of shit.

We have done everything up to the point of declaring war on the government.. we are not helping them out. They trusted us and we let them down 2 years ago and it has gone to shit. We have not been involved with Syria you dipstick.

We are supporting the overthrow of the leadership of a sovereign state. No we are not... the people are revolting and you can take that anyway you like

[Rorschach]

At some point the EU or the USA is going to have to take a military action to stem the flow of migrants. They are looking more and more like invaders rather than refugees. I suspect this affair will be the beginning of the end of Merkel and possibly the EU.

That's exactly what it seems like - an invasion.

Now Australia is talking about removing Syria’s Bashar al-Assad which will only exacerbate the violence. No we are not that is a LIE mantra. How many ME leaders have we removed in the past decade or so for the sake of democracy? Hussein... that was it. All the Coalition of the Willing has done is left a huge mess for the rest of the world to clean up. No the arab world is a mess and has been for ages and we keep going in and sorting it out. There has to be another motive for their actions and it isn't for the sake of democracy, otherwise we would have learnt from our invasion of Iraq and the execution of Saddam. We didn't execute Hussein, the Iraqi courts did. Obviously dictators are essential in the ME to keep these warring factions under control. Obviously we should wall them up and let them kill each other off...

[Rorschach]

RE SYRIA... some facts.

The black flag flying over a dark state can only be stopped with firepower
Date September 13, 2015 - 9:00PM 468 reading now
Paul Sheehan
Sydney Morning Herald columnist

Before the civil war engulfed Syria, a popular chant on the streets among Sunni Muslims was, "The Christians to Beirut, the Alawites to the coffin".

[/b]Ethnic cleansing was always the agenda of Sunni militants in Syria. The Alawites, a branch of Shia Islam, dominated the government in Damascus even though they represent 13 per cent of the population while Sunnis are about 70 per cent.

This civil war is the third uprising by Sunni militants in Syria in 40 years. They are never going to submit to Shia rule.

The resentment grew deeper when their fellow Sunnis in Iraq were humiliated after Saddam Hussein was toppled by the United States. A Sunni-dominated regime was replaced by a Shia-dominated government.

This is why the regime of President Bashar Al-Assad in Damascus has fought with such brutality. It knows that defeat is death. It sees defeat as the end of 2 million Alawites.

Syria's 2 million Christians are caught in the middle. The majority have been pushed into Lebanon. This is as per plan: 'the Christians to Beirut, the Alawites to the coffin'.

It would be wise for the Greens to dwell on this as they lead the opposition to the Australian government's decision to extend air strikes against Islamic State to Syria. Last Wednesday, Greens MP Adam Band rose in federal Parliament to express the Greens' concerns:

"Bombing Syria will make a very bad situation worse. It will not stop ISIS, it will not make Australians safer and it will not make Syrians safer. Bombing Syria, when that country is in the middle of a very vicious and very complex civil war, risks creating more refugees, risks further destabilising the region and, perversely, risks helping the brutal Assad regime and offshoots of al-Qaeda that are currently involved in fighting ISIS as well ...

"Our government does not seem to have a plan for dealing with the political or military problems in Syria or moving towards creating a sustainable and stable political solution. Its first instinct is to go in, pick sides and bomb … What about working with the civil society groups that want to see democracy and stability in the region?"

What about living in the real world? Something Greens don't do... Invocation of "sustainable political solutions" and "civil society" and "ceasefires" is an abdication from reality when dealing with Islamic State.

I write this as someone who did not see bombing as the answer when the US was preparing to invade Iraq in 2003. I wrote vehemently against the US invasion before, during and after the event. I have described the man responsible for that invasion, President George W. Bush, as the worst president in US history.

What has happened since the invasion is far worse than I imagined could happen.

But the Greens and those who oppose Australian air strikes against Islamic State in Syria appear willing to fight to the last drop of other people's blood. Appeasement of Islamic State does not make for clean hands.

There will be civilian casualties from more air strikes. This is a recognition of reality. The civil war in Syria and Iraq requires choosing among the lesser of evils.

There is no comfort zone. The only thing that matters is minimising the numbers who are being murdered, degraded and oppressed.

Between Baghdad and Damascus is the homeland of 20 million Sunni Arabs. Half of them have been displaced. The other half are living under conditions of turmoil where their leaders have been systematically assassinated by Islamic State, by al-Qaeda, by the Assad regime and by Shiite death squads trained by Iran.

Assassinating moderate Sunni leaders has been a key operating procedure for Islamic State even though they themselves are Sunni.

Those 20 million Sunni Muslims are the main victims, and main prize, of this conflict. Islamic State desperately needs to consolidate its gains in the Sunni territories. Its core strategic aim is to hold territory and people, which is why even Islamic State has been using the image of the drowned Syrian boy, Aylan Kurdi, to exhort Sunnis not to flee.

Everything needs to be reverse-engineered from the starting point that Islamic State is the most evil element in this cauldron. The regimes in Damascus, Tehran and Baghdad may all be odious but nothing compares with the malevolence of a state emerging under the black flag of Islamic State.

A cascade of pragmatic accommodations thus have to be made. Removing the Assad regime in Damascus is not an option. The rebel movement is genocidal.

The Russian move to defend the Syrian regime with military force is a necessary evil. It is a buttress against Islamic State and complete state failure.

Iran's arming and training of Shia militias to fight Islamic State is another necessary evil.

Turkey, which has committed genocide in the past against Christians, has been willing to watch genocide against Kurds by Islamic State. Its army has sat and watched as Kurds fought to the death against Islamic state fighters, and held them off.

Australia should be supporting the Kurds in Syria and Iraq. They have repeatedly defeated Islamic State because they know that defeat is death.

Australia has begun air combat operations in Syria from an air base in the United Arab Emirates that is 1200 kilometres from the fields of battle. This seems absurd. It requires an enormous expenditure of time, cost and fuel just to reach the target zones, with in-flight refuelling.

Finally, Canberra should urge the Obama administration to step up its air operations against Islamic State, a force of psychopaths that cannot be allowed to consolidate under a black flag over an even darker state.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-black ... z3lfe08YIy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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[boxy]

What a fucking stupid image. The media fucking love images of the carnage caused by terrorism.