Is IS becoming civilised?

[Super Nova]

We should all be concerned that if IS get a state there will be a never ending war. They seek to convert all of us to their brand of Islam or die.

Think about it:

They screw each other and little boys but kill gays (throw them off roof tops)
They have anal sex with girls so they remain pure for marriage. (then stone those that have sex out of wedlock)
They murder children.
They sell women and girls as sex slaves... war booty.
They demand payments from vendors just like the mafia or they will be killed.
They are well funded and the best organised of any terrorist group so far.
They continually succeed in gaining new recruits (typically to vulnerable or mentally disturbed. They continue to change their marketing.
Convert or die.
Once converted you have to kill for them.
The guys at the top are smart.

They will never we civilised by modern standards. They are not even civilised by 10th Century Islamic standards.

(e) Murder: Killing any one without right is prohibited both in Bible and Quran. Quran goes further, “We ordained for Children on Israel that He who kills one person (but for retaliation or terrorism in the land)) is like killing a whole mankind. ( 5:32 )

(f) Adultery: Bible prohibits only the act of adultery. Quran prohibits even its preliminaries, i.e. any acts exiting lustful feelings. This is because once hormones are excited it is difficult to keep them under control. So why not nip the evil in the bud!

http://www.islam101.com/religions/TenCo ... cQuran.htm

[mantra]

My views have changed a lot in recent years. I used to think their bad behaviour was mostly environmental, but it's clear that it doesn't matter where they are - in a civilised country or not, the males in particular are extremely primitive and violent. Even though they can initially disguise it - it's a mindset that can't be changed.

[Super Nova]

it's bloody complex... read below............... I don't this they have anything to do with islam.......... it's something else

The Western media describes ISIL – the ultra-extremist terrorists destabilizing Iraq and Syria – as “Sunni militants.”

Headlines read: “Sunni Islamist Militants Seize Mosul.” “Sunni militants capture northern Iraqi town.” “Iraq Army Tries to Roll Back Sunni Militants’ Advance.”

The corporate media casts the fighting in Iraq as a Sunni vs. Shia conflict. The Sunni side, according to these reports, is led by ISIL – a group that was expelled from al-Qaeda for being too extreme.

But is ISIL really Sunni?

Many experts say “no.” Some question whether ISIL has a right to call itself an Islamic group at all.

In an interview with Truth Jihad Radio, Islamic scholar Dr. John Andrew Morrow (Ilyas Abd al-‘Alim Islam) questioned ISIL’s Islamic credentials: “A lot of so-called jihad (such as ISIL’s) is not rooted in Islam. Especially if you look at who’s funding it, who’s supporting it, who’s behind it. Western powers have a long history of using jihadists and Islamists to further their own imperial ambitions. In terms of the foot-soldiers, they may think they are fighting for Islam. But if you look closer, you find they’re furthering the cause of the enemy.”

Dr. Morrow pointed out that much of ISIL’s behavior is patently un-Islamic. He said that the ISIL terrorists love to film themselves committing war crimes that are forbidden by Islam: “They are very proud to commit atrocities. They film it. They upload it to the internet. They have their own websites.”

Dr. Morrow commented on the notorious video showing a Takfiri terrorist eating a dead soldier’s liver: “This is what Hind (an enemy of the Muslims) did. You’re not following the sahaba, you’re not following the Prophet. You’re following the polytheists who were fighting the Prophet when you start cannibalizing corpses. And there was another video of a poor Muslim sister who was strangled to death. I mean, who goes around strangling women to cries of Allahu akbar?”

Continuing the habit of vaunting their un-Islamic atrocities, ISIL terrorists recently posted internet videos showing themselves murdering 1,700 captured Iraqi army soldiers. They have also reportedly killed dozens of Sunni imams who refuse to swear allegiance to ISIL. And they are killing Shia Muslims indiscriminately.

If these terrorists are Sunni Muslims, why are they systematically violating the tenets of Sunni Islam?

In fact, ISIL appears to be far outside of Sunni Islam. The kind of “Islam” espoused by the ISIL Takfiris is an extreme version of the Salafi-Wahhabi school of thought. These people reject the five major Islamic madhhabs (schools of thought) including the four Sunni ones. If you reject all four Sunni madhhabs, how can you call yourself Sunni?

In fact, the extreme Salafi-Wahhabis, including the ultra-extreme ISIL, have broken with mainstream Islam as it has existed for fourteen centuries. By jettisoning the established Islamic madhhabs, and stepping outside of Islam as it has always been understood, they have entered a very dangerous territory in which they feel they can just make up the rules as they go along. So they make up such rules as: “It is okay to rape Christian and Shia women. It is okay to eat the internal organs of dead enemies. It is okay to marry ‘jihad brides’ for sex and divorce them after 30 minutes. It is okay to crucify Christian holy men. It is okay to strangle women to death. It is okay to mass-murder civilians. It is okay to mass-execute prisoners of war.”

No Sunni in history would recognize this as Sunni Islam.

Zaid Hamid, a Sunni Muslim defense analyst from Pakistan, says ISIS and related terrorist groups are not Sunnis, but Kharajite heretics serving an imperial anti-Islamic agenda. (The Kharajites were an ultra-radical group that rejected early versions of both Sunni and Shia Islam and stepped outside of the Islamic community - hence their name, which means “those who step outside.”) Hamid argues that the ultra-radical groups destabilizing Pakistan, Syria and Iraq have indeed stepped outside of Islam, and are making war on Islam and Muslims on behalf of Zionism and imperialism.

But isn’t it true that many Sunni Muslims in Iraq support ISIL?

Yes and no. It is true that some ordinary Iraqis from Sunni backgrounds have joined ISIL’s insurrection in Iraq. But these are mainly pro-Saddam revanchists, not religiously-oriented Sunni Muslims. Saddam Hussein, of course, was a radical secularist whose idols were Stalin and Hitler. Saddam’s Ba’ath party was anti-religious and pro-secularist; Saddam’s hatred of the Islamic Awakening was so extreme that he launched a war on the Ayatollah Khomeini’s new Islamic Republic in hopes of preventing the rebirth of Islam. So to call the Saddam Hussein supporters who are joining with ISIL “Sunnis” is misleading. Saddam’s forces, like ISIL, are opposed to Islam in both its traditional Sunni and Shia forms.

The full name of Sunnism is “the people of the Tradition of the Prophet and the consensus of the community” (ahl as-sunnah wa l-jamaʻah). Eating the livers of dead enemies is not part of the Tradition of the Prophet – it is the tradition of the enemies of the Prophet. And such behavior is obviously not approved by the consensus of the Muslim community.

The Tradition of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) is one of inclusion, tolerance, mutual respect, and the forging of alliances between people of different tribes and religions. The original Muslim community, whose founding document is the Constitution of Medina, consisted of Christians, Jews and Muslims living together and sharing power and obligations on an equitable basis.

The real Sunna (Tradition) holds to reason and persuasion, and uses violence only as a last resort. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and his Family and Companions preached peacefully for 12 years, despite atrocious persecution, before God finally authorized them to fight back in self-defense.

The real Tradition of the Prophet respects knowledge so much that “the ink of the scholar is more precious than the blood of the martyr.” And the consensus of the Islamic community is that the work of 14 centuries worth of Islamic scholarship – the five major Islamic madhhabs, both the four Sunni madhhabs and the Shia Ja’fari madhhab – collectively represents mainstream Islam. All Sunni Muslims have tremendous respect for Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq, who founded the main Shia madhhab. The terrorists who reject this tremendous scholarly achievement, and want to kill everyone who disagrees with them, are far outside of normative Sunni Islam.

So why does the Western mainstream media insist on calling anti-Sunni, anti-Shia groups like ISIL “Sunni”?
Perhaps the problem is laziness. Since ISIL has a special hatred for Shia Muslims, the simplest way to portray them is to paint the situation as an alleged Sunni vs. Shia conflict. By defaulting to this lowest-common-denominator description, the media absolves itself from the duty of explaining, in detail, what is actually going on.

But it is also possible that the corporate media is intentionally misreporting the situation. The extreme-Zionist neoconservatives launched the US invasion of Iraq in order to break up that country, and the Middle East as a whole, by inciting ethnic and sectarian strife. The “Sunni vs. Shia” meme was created and spread by the Occupiers through a wave of false-flag terrorism. Perhaps the media is trumpeting that meme in order to propagate it.

In any case, the world’s Sunni Muslims are being slandered every time the media calls ISIL “Sunni.” It is time for Sunnis to reject this mischaracterization of their religion. Perhaps Sunni Muslims should file a class action lawsuit against the media outlets that are spreading this calumny.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/06/17 ... ot-at-all/

[Super Nova]

They are killing their own... even though it is a different brand.......


4 questions ISIS rebels use to tell Sunni from Shia

ISIS believes that the Shias are apostates and must die in order to forge a pure form of Islam.

BAGHDAD: Whether a person is a Shia or a Sunni Muslim in Iraq can now be, quite literally, a matter of life and death.

As the militant group the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria, or ISIS, has seized vast territories in western and northern Iraq, there have been frequent accounts of fighters' capturing groups of people and releasing the Sunnis while the Shias are singled out for execution.

ISIS believes that the Shias are apostates and must die in order to forge a pure form of Islam. The two main branches of Islam diverge in their beliefs over who is the true inheritor of the mantle of the Prophet Muhammad. The Shias believe that Islam was transmitted through the household of the Prophet Muhammad. Sunnis believe that it comes down through followers of the Prophet Muhammad who, they say, are his chosen people.

But how can ISIS tell whether a person is a Sunni or a Shia? From accounts of people who survived encounters with the militants, it seems they often ask a list of questions. Here are some of them:

What is your name?

A quick look at an Iraqi's national identity card or passport can be a signal. Shias believe that the leadership of Islam was passed down through the Prophet Muhammad's son-in-law Ali and his sons Hussain (or Hussein), Hassan and Abbas, among others. While some Sunnis and members of other Islamic groups may also have those names, ISIS would most likely associate them with the Shias.

Where do you live?

In every city and province, even majority Sunni ones, there are enclaves that are known to be Shia. People who said they came from one of those neighborhoods would most likely be killed.


How do you pray?

Shias and Sunnis offer prayers in slightly different ways, with Sunnis generally folding their hands or crossing their arms in front of their stomachs and Shias leaving them extended, palms resting on their thighs.

In a chilling video that appeared to have been made more than a year ago in the Anbar Province of Iraq, ISIS fighters stopped three truck drivers in the desert and asked them whether they were Sunnis or Shias. All three claimed to be Sunni. Then the questions got harder. They were asked how they performed each of the prayers: morning, midday and evening. The truck drivers disagreed on their methods, and all were shot.

What kind of music do you listen to?

Recordings of religious songs could also be a tipoff. Similarly, even the ringtone on a person's telephone could be a clue because it might be from a Sunni or Shia religious song.

There are other clues, but none are completely reliable. For instance, a number of Shias wear large rings, often with semiprecious stones. But so do some Sunnis, and others.

Generally, Iraqi Shias and Sunnis are often indistinguishable in appearance. That is even more evident in many families and tribes in which there has been intermarriage for generations.

Given that the rigid views of ISIS are fairly well known, it is perhaps natural to wonder why hostages do not simply lie about their origins. It seems that many do, yet in very tense, perilous encounters, people can easily get tripped up. Sometimes another person in a group might inadvertently give someone away. Others refuse to lie about their faith.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 257563.cms

[Super Nova]

BTW... I live in Dubai that is Sunni................... ISIL is not acting like a real Sunni............ they are just evil................ they should be hunted down and eliminated........... I don't know why they are not........... someone in real power is supporting and protecting them.

[Outlaw Yogi]

Well Mantra, personally I think posing the question and titling the thread "Is IS becoming civilised?" quite a blunder, regardless of whether you've fallen for their media hype or not.

For argument's sake, let's just imagine you were living in an Iraqi or Syrian area now occupied by IS and were a secular non practicing Sunni muslim who for pragmatic survival
pretended to be a good religious muslim by covering up your body and putting a niqab sack on your head to avoid persecution.
Then along comes an IS devotee (combatant, imam or female religious police) and saw you smoking a cigarete. How civilised is it to cut 2 fingers off for smoking - 1st offense, cut your hand off - 2nd offense, or execution - 3rd offense?

BTW... I live in Dubai that is Sunni................... ISIL is not acting like a real Sunni............ they are just evil................ they should be hunted down and eliminated........... I don't know why they are not........... someone in real power is supporting and protecting them.

They have the moral support of the Turkish population (the Ottomans controlled the Islamic Calphate that fell in ww1) and clandestine physical support from the Turkish intel agency.
That's how come IS can sell the oil from their captured oil fields on the Turkish black market. Which is IS's prime source of funding.

Anyway, if you know about the ideaological background of Saddam Hussain (who by the way tried to invoke a holy war/Jihad while being invaded the 2nd time by USA & Co[2003]) you'll be aware he modelled himself on and idolised Joseph Stalin, who butched 20 million of his wn people, and ethnically cleansed Georgia (where Stalin was born) of Georgians.

And now the answers to the questions we've all been asking have been revealed ...

[Read in Weekend Australian, but since launching their new digital format I can't access for free anymore]

ISIS a Stalinist state built on paranoia, spies
http://www.pressdisplay.com/pressdisplay/viewer.aspx

Stalin is the godfather of Islamic State. The Soviet leader died 60 years before the brutal fundamentalist caliphate began to take shape in Syria and neighbouring Iraq. But just as Stalin created a spy-state founded on fear, so the architects of Islamic State set out to forge a new caliphate using precisely the same methods.

Stalin’s USSR and the selfproclaimed theocracy ruled by Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi both laid claim to ideological purity; but both, in reality, were predicated on the acquisition of power by means of a fearsome internal espionage network.

The KGB, the East German Stasi and Saddam Hussein’s Mukhabarat intelligence agency are the direct progenitors of the Islamic State security apparatus. The proof lies in a cache of documents uncovered after a shootout last year between Syrian rebels and an Iraqi intelligence officer now believed to be the strategic mastermind behind the Islamic State takeover of northern Syria.

Samir Abd Muhammad al-Khlifawi, who usually went by the nom de guerre Haji Bakr, was a colonel in Saddam’s military intelligence services who found himself jobless when the Baathist regime was dismantled and dismissed after the US invasion.

“Bitter and unemployed”, Bakr and other disgruntled Baathists began plotting a seizure of power: the roiling chaos in the rebel-held territories of northern Syria offered the perfect opportunity.

Bakr was shot dead by Syrian rebels in January last year. Inside his house in the town of Tal Rifaat his killers discovered a bundle of documents describing how to build and enforce a police state.

The documents, revealed by the German magazine Der Spiegel this week, amounted to nothing less than a “blueprint for a takeover ... not a manifesto of faith, but a technically precise plan for an ‘Islamic Intelligence State’.”

Spies, not religious converts, were the foundation on which Islamic State was built. Bakr’s plans called for missionary offices to be opened in towns across rebelheld Syria, as cover for the recruitment of informants.

These spies were deployed to amass information that might be useful to divide and control the local populations: power structures, armed groups, potential opponents and the religious complexion of individual imams.
The agents were also instructed to gather evidence on criminal or homosexual activity which might be used to blackmail individuals, and to infiltrate powerful clans by marrying into them.

A local commander would be appointed for each province to oversee kidnapping, murder and espionage. But at the same time, the security structure would itself be subject to surveillance by parallel departments. Everyone would spy on everyone else.

The underground spy network set up by Bakr enabled Islamic State to rise to power with a speed and efficiency that stunned Western intelligence agencies. But his methods were hardly new.

Bakr was a product of the terror state created by Saddam, whose system of internal surveillance in turn owed a great deal to the Soviet model of repression and manipulation.

As a young man, Saddam bragged that he would turn Iraq into a “Stalin state”. His seizure of power came with a staged scene of terror, when about 60 “traitors” were exposed at a meeting of the Revolutionary Command Council in 1979, then led away to be shot.

He urged his intelligence officers to recruit “a shadow in every house”; the shadows themselves were spied upon. Men such as Bakr learnt their trade among the shadows, and have now successfully applied these techniques to build Islamic State.

Its nearest parallel may be the Stasi, the security force of East Germany. Using thousands of citizen-informants to root out dissent, it was perhaps the most effective secret police agency in history.

Islamic State portrays itself as a pure religious revolution. It is seen in the West as a terrorist state, dedicated to wholesale destruction and looting. But the discovery that the world’s newest state is the work of Saddam’s former spooks suggests that what appears to be a new phenomenon may really be the application of tried and tested techniques of autocratic rule.

Der Spiegel says Baghdadi was selected by Bakr and his cabal of former Iraqi intelligence officers to give the group “a religious face”. Islamic State has two faces: one fanatical and fundamentalist, imposing religious conformity; the other secular and strategic, pursuing raw power. When they searched Bakr’s house, the rebels found ample evidence of a superspy, but not one copy of the Koran.

[mantra]

Well Mantra, personally I think posing the question and titling the thread "Is IS becoming civilised?" quite a blunder, regardless of whether you've fallen for their media hype or not.

For argument's sake, let's just imagine you were living in an Iraqi or Syrian area now occupied by IS and were a secular non practicing Sunni muslim who for pragmatic survival
pretended to be a good religious muslim by covering up your body and putting a niqab sack on your head to avoid persecution.
Then along comes an IS devotee (combatant, imam or female religious police) and saw you smoking a cigarete. How civilised is it to cut 2 fingers off for smoking - 1st offense, cut your hand off - 2nd offense, or execution - 3rd offense?

There are variations of harshness in Sharia Law depending on what community you're part of. IS should be stamped out, but they seem to have gathered momentum. Where were we when they took control of Iraq's oil refineries? Until that happened - the Coalition of the Willing didn't give a stuff about them. Iran and Palestine would be backing them also. We should just keep our nose out of the ME and concentrate on protecting Australia. Let them kill each other if they have to.

[IQS.RLOW]

Where were we when they took control of Iraq's oil refineries? Until that happened - the Coalition of the Willing didn't give a stuff about them.

Don't lie.

[Outlaw Yogi]

Last year I had to go to this (work related) wank seminar on positive attitude because of the answers I gave to a multiple choice questionaire which supposedly defined my character traits, and I graffitied it with numerous unsolicited comments, like I doubt a psuedo-religious questionaire dreampt up by a bunch of Carl Jung devotees is likely to give an accurate description of my character.

During this wank seminar, which was just as I had suspected, a hotch potch of religious concepts, I was asked "What's your life purpose?".
I replied "I have no purpose" because if I had said "My purpose is to destroy religion on this planet" it would get back to the boss' missus. Who had already got her nose out of joint when backpackers asked why we worked Easter but had ANZAC day off, and I replied "Because the ANZACs are more importent than Jesus".

I've made no secret of the fact I think religion (all religion) should be relegated to the book shelf between philosophy and mythology. So anyone can study the texts for historical value, but religious leaders have no influence on any social issue.

I take it for granted that one day religious faith will be considered a treatable illness.
In the meantime we've got a particularly nasty version of this illness to eliminate.
Yes I mean complete obliteration of Islam in all its forms.

[mantra]

Now a few alleged Australian jihardists have had enough and want to come home. Their excuse for being over there - they were aid workers only. Few people would believe this.

They should be sent to Guantanamo Bay if it's still open. If it was good enough for David Hicks - it's good enough for these blokes. They don't even deserve an easy jail sentence in Australia where the taxpayer has to feed them for the next decade or so. I hope this government is strong enough to refuse them entry.

Who supported this bloke's wife and 5 children while he was on his little adventure?

An Islamic State defector who sparked a storm about whether those who join the terrorist group should be allowed to return to Australia has denounced the slaughter of innocent civilians and told of his wish to rejoin his Melbourne family.

Adam Brookman, a father of five, said he was forced to join the group when he travelled to Syria to provide aid early last year.

Speaking exclusively to Fairfax Media from Turkey, Mr Brookman said he fled to the country from Syria after seeing the aftermath of Islamic State atrocities, including people being crucified.

"I don't agree with what they do at all," he said.

"I don't agree with their kidnapping, with their dealings with other Muslim groups, and especially after they started executing journalists and other innocent civilians."

Mr Brookman married into a devout Islamic family based in Melbourne's northern suburbs.

He had worked as a nurse in Victoria, and provided humanitarian aid before travelling to Syria, including an Indonesian orphanage.

"I never went there to fight, I went there as a nurse. I support the struggle of the Syrian people.

"What I saw was Syria being ignored by the international community, I thought I could help."

Mr Brookman said he was working in a Syrian clinic when it was bombed. He was injured, and taken to a hospital that was under the control of Islamic State.

"After I recovered they wouldn't let me leave."

He said he never committed an act of violence, and that witnessing the aftermath of public executions motivated him to flee.

He witnessed the aftermath of a crucifixion of a man suspected of spying for Syrian president Bashar al-Assad, but said he did not "necessarily" oppose the punishment.

He said the concern was whether the man was guilty.

"I myself agree with capital punishment, which they also have in the United States.

"I don't agree with innocent people being executed."

Mr Brookman's views about issues such as capital punishment are unlikely to be surprising to security sources, who said his story should be viewed sceptically.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/nationa ... h5cog.html