Bill Shorten - opposition leader

[Rorschach]

I am re-posting the RELEVANT bits of IQ's post that I quoted that has been censored (instead of deleted) as this part is RELEVANT to the debate!

Treasury has borrowed $500bn not the govt ...........

It's because the previous govt racked up so much debt that the overhead borrowing power needed to be raised to deal with on going business of running the country.

That is a pathetic excuse. In 2007 Labor walked straight into a shocking recession - the GFC. They kept the economy moving - even if it was slow. Howard's $29 billion surplus - lasted 5 seconds considering the ongoing costs the Coalition left Labor ie. baby bonus, family allowance, cash for immunisation, pensions for the wealthy - the porkbarrelling goes on.

Under Howard - there was no means testing. Labor had to try and break that stranglehold and got punished for it. Now Abbott comes in with his simplistic and ignorant view on how society should function and he's treading on toes. He's not the right person for the job. I said this when he first became opposition leader. He functions better when he's in the sun and exercising.

Are you saying that there is no association between the government and treasury?

Thanks mantra if i wanted to look upon bullshit I will take a trip into the country and find some cattle. I can't believe you honestly write or believe such crap.
Hatred certainly warps one's mind doesn't it.

[Rorschach]

Forget what happened under Howard! He left lots of money in the coffers. Rudd/Gillard went on a spending spree and left the country in the RED. Abbott has to pay off some of the bills PLUS keep the country running, otherwise we are up shit creek. Geeze.

Oh, and the GFC barely touched Australia. The countries where it did hit had housing prices crashing dramatically. Didn't happen here, which is a pity.

Because Rudd and Swan saved us from that, the only country at that time to come out of the recession in tact- if not imagine the shit pit we would be in now- convenient short memory hey?

Actually nef is right.
It was mostly northern hemisphere hardly global and they pissed money up against the wall and were lucky the howard government had left them a surplus.... now we've gone from having our heads above water financially to being 20'under and with a weight of overspending debt and interest tied to our ankles dragging us even further under.
Pity this government is trying to help but has it's hands tied by those who put us there in the first place.

[Black Orchid]

I hadn't heard about suicide rates spiking because of something that may (or more than likely may not) happen in July next year. It's highly unlikely the proposal, as it is, will get through the Senate. Suicide is a devastatingly sad thing but if one takes one's own life because of something that will probably never happen (in a years time) you have to assume that they would find a host of other excuses in the meantime to end their life.

It is extremely unlikely the proposed controversial 6 month wait will get passed. It has no merit and would lead to a massive spike in crime.

[Rorschach]

Forget what happened under Howard! He left lots of money in the coffers. Rudd/Gillard went on a spending spree and left the country in the RED. Abbott has to pay off some of the bills PLUS keep the country running, otherwise we are up shit creek. Geeze.

Oh, and the GFC barely touched Australia. The countries where it did hit had housing prices crashing dramatically. Didn't happen here, which is a pity.

Because Rudd and Swan saved us from that, the only country at that time to come out of the recession in tact- if not imagine the shit pit we would be in now- convenient short memory hey?

Actually nef is right.
It was mostly northern hemisphere hardly global and they pissed money up against the wall and were lucky the howard government had left them a surplus.... now we've gone from having our heads above water financially to being 20'under and with a weight of overspending debt and interest tied to our ankles dragging us even further under.
Pity this government is trying to help but has it's hands tied by those who put us there in the first place.

There is helping and then there is helping in a fair and humane manner..this is what is wrong with this stupid Govt: No one is saying don't fix something that need's fixing, but one has to be fair and equitable about it-- or what is happening now will happen. It's ok for these bludging cockroaches to sit back on their fat salaries and who are increasing those salaries every time they do a sloppy fart,compliments of worker ants ( US) while the rest of us-1. struggle to get work and are asked to survive on a pittance, and at the same time watch him slash jobs, and job opportunies and tell us we have to swallow this gratefully..then we watch him licking the asses of Murdoch and Rhinehardt constantly..it is just to depressing to list everything..but when it was announced that he was cutting dole to under thirties, youth suicide spiked in Tasmania...if you think this govt is worth a shit- well then I hate you !

I'm all for fair and I'm all for honesty... you should try it sometime.
The last government was spending beyond its capacity to raise funds.
This has largely been locked in and is a large part of the problem.
I never said this government has it's priorities right re its targeting, but... it is the only other option... the ALP and Greens have no answers just more of the same, more lies, more hypocrisy and no answers... they labeled Abbott DR No... but in reality they are Dr NO NO NO...
As for fat cats.... which side of politics turned down or voted against the pay rise... oh that's right no one did.
1/ I started the cost of living topic
2/ I argue that Newstart is inadequate
3/ I argued against the new "dole" measures.
4/ As for you hating me, frankly my dear, I don't give a shit.
Personally I don't hate people I don't even know. It's a LW prog thing all this hating and inability to tolerate dissent or the ideas of others, them and other rabid extremists.

[Rorschach]

http://www.cssa.org.au/media/article/?i ... ember-2014

This isn't the article I wanted...I haven't time right now to search, but I will find it..there was an article in Facebook that was linked to the site I wanted but it has been removed- BUT I will find it. On the FB page it said that there has been a spike in youth suicide in already very economically depressed Tasmania..suicide was already a problem, but all hope has been taken away for these young pp who already live in poverty because of no work/jobs. Abbott is A fluffy bunny. I hate the filthy pig.

Whatever the cause it isn't Abbott's fault ya moron.
But yes you do play the man all the time and with you Abbott, abbott, abbott keeps proving how biased and irrational you are.

[mantra]

Labor has already changed the debt limit on numerous occasions.

The Labor Government introduced a debt ceiling limit in 2008 of $75 billion.

Then fearing they would exceed this limit in 2009 they increased it to $200 billion during the Global Financial Crisis.

In 2011 Labor assured us that they were getting the Budget back to surplus and living within their means but then came back to the Parliament and increased the debt limit to $250 billion

And the Coalition is doing exactly the same thing.

So why was the debt ceiling so terrible when Labor raised it - yet so benign when the Coalition does the same? Labor only raised it by $75 billion in the first year - then another $200 billion two years later. The Coalition raised it a further $200 billion in their first year.

Their excuse is that they're paying for Labor's mistakes, but Labor had to pay for the previous Coalition government's porkbarrelling. Even childcare had to be resurrected by Labor. The monopolies like ABC childcare collapsed completely in 2007 and took most of the daycare centres with them. There were dozens of similar situations where Howard had stripped a service and allowed it to be privatised. He encouraged a pyramid economy and those half way down the pyramid had to pay for the fat cats at the top. When it collapsed - those at the bottom were the people affected. All Labor did was try and bring back some equity. Abbott doesn't believe in equity.

We don't know what Abbott is spending this money on because he runs a sly and secretive government.

[5.56 NATO]

arsoleannoyed is having a mega meltdown and Mantra outright lying...oxygen thieves the pair of em

[Rorschach]

Labor has already changed the debt limit on numerous occasions.

The Labor Government introduced a debt ceiling limit in 2008 of $75 billion.

Then fearing they would exceed this limit in 2009 they increased it to $200 billion during the Global Financial Crisis.

In 2011 Labor assured us that they were getting the Budget back to surplus and living within their means but then came back to the Parliament and increased the debt limit to $250 billion

And the Coalition is doing exactly the same thing.
And because it is the Coalition you are outraged... not before.
So why was the debt ceiling so terrible when Labor raised it - yet so benign when the Coalition does the same? Another lie.... YOU are the one carrying on about it no one else... I just showed you proof of the reality of the situation, I even had to explain to you that raising a limit is not actual borrowing and why it was neccesary. Still your bias and mindless hatred stops you from seeing the truth and you make up more lies.....
Labor only raised it by $75 billion in the first year - then another $200 billion two years later. The Coalition raised it a further $200 billion in their first year. I explained why mantra because of the increase in debt due to Labor, grow up and face the truth....

Their excuse is that they're paying for Labor's mistakes, but Labor had to pay for the previous Coalition government's porkbarrelling. yeah all $20 billion in surplus...
Even childcare had to be resurrected by Labor. The monopolies like ABC childcare collapsed completely in 2007 and took most of the daycare centres with them.
ABC folded due to bad management, I watched the 4 corners report.
ABC childcare was a private business not government you moron.

There were dozens of similar situations where Howard had stripped a service and allowed it to be privatised. He encouraged a pyramid economy and those half way down the pyramid had to pay for the fat cats at the top. When it collapsed - those at the bottom were the people affected. All Labor did was try and bring back some equity. Abbott doesn't believe in equity.

Abbott the same guy with the most generous PPL? That Abbott?

We don't know what Abbott is spending this money on because he runs a sly and secretive government.Oh grow up you Conspiranut fool... just stop hating and face reality.

[Rorschach]

back where it belongs...

Re mantra's ignorance of the facts...

Yes - that's what I said

Another lie from mantra. She can't help it, the lies just pour out her mouth like a flood of explosive diarreah

You argued that a ceiling wasn't a debt, but it is when you borrow billions of dollars, even if you don't use it immediately. You and Neferti can't see it and you have only confirmed what I originally said.

I'll say this for the 4th time and it might sink in. We don't get to borrow $200 billion for nothing. It's added to the debt allegedly left by Labor, which is a leftover from the Howard era when revenue was good. Howard lost his seat 5 minutes before the GFC hit. How lucky was he? While everyone else was losing everything - Howard lounged back on his comfortable pension and generous perks advising Abbott how to win government back. Abbott is only useful as an attack dog - nothing else and it's now very obvious to even the dullest of Lib voters.

When you extend your borrowing limit are you actually borrowing mantra?
If the Labor party has set us on a debt spiral and extended the limit to $250 billion and it still isn't enough when they lose the election... whose fault is that?

Treasurer Wayne Swan raises government's borrowing limit to $250 ... also remove a requirement that the Treasurer explain why the extra money is needed. The move follows a $120 billion boost to the borrowing limit just two ...

Wayne Swan’s shocking week in Parliament continues.
Yesterday Wayne Swan was unable to repeat his solemn guarantee to the House that the Government’s debt – subject to the debt limit – would be below $250 billion by year’s end.
Today Wayne Swan went one better. Wayne Swan was explicitly asked to rule out a further increase in the debt limit above the current limit of $300 billion. He steadfastly refused.
Government borrowings subject to the limit currently sit at $263 billion – and Wayne Swan’s refusal to rule out having to raise the debt limit again is more evidence that this Government can no longer be trusted.
Labor has already changed the debt limit on numerous occasions.
The Labor Government introduced a debt ceiling limit in 2008 of $75 billion.
Then fearing they would exceed this limit in 2009 they increased it to $200 billion during the Global Financial Crisis.
In 2011 Labor assured us that they were getting the Budget back to surplus and living within their means but then came back to the Parliament and increased the debt limit to $250 billion.
In 2012 the Government increased this limit again to $300 billion, with Wayne Swan describing it as ‘no big deal’.
Wayne Swan and Labor are addicted to spending and addicted to debt. This year they are spending over $90 billion more than the last Budget of John Howard and Peter Costello. Debt is at its highest level in Australian history.
Only the Coalition can restore honesty and integrity to Government.

Please don't say anything else stupid that I have to correct mantra.

[mantra]

ABC folded due to bad management, I watched the 4 corners report.
ABC childcare was a private business not government you moron.

Now you are twisting the truth - so does that mean you're lying? The Coalition stripped most of the community day care centres of their funding. Many of them were forced to close. Money was being given away to every man and his dog, so an incompetent started buying all the centres up.

That's what Howard did best - strip funding from many public and community services and encouraged privatisation and as a consequence too many of them went bust. Labor started building these services up again - now Abbott is dismantling them yet again.