The stain of left wing politics has been removed.

[Ravi]

Back in the Day the mad monk was an advocate for the carbon tax. He is documented as stating that the only fair way to reduce carbon emissions is to have a carbon tax in place. He changed his mind only because he was able to use his scare campaign against the 'lier' Gillard with carbon tax as the centre piece. What do you think will happen now as other countries around the world set up carbon taxes and emmission trading schemes, where exactly do we go then to sell our fossil fuels, and when they begin trading sanctions and taxes on exports from countries without carbon emmissions measures in place, we'll be up shit creek.
Abbott is a short term man, he cares only about being pm and he is willing to lie his way to oblivion for the honor. It is the same with the mining tax. Somehow the snake oil salesman was able to make ordinary people believe that they were paying the super profits mining tax.... somehow joe fucking blow on the street was fed the info that he is out of pocket when a multi-national mining corporation has to pay an extra tax when they earn SUPER-PROFITS by selling the raw materials that come out of our ground, our country. He is a class lier and that is all he is.

[IQS.RLOW]

What do you think will happen now as other countries around the world set up carbon taxes and emmission trading schemes

They aren't, so nothing will happen and unless they are all in, no one country will set up a trading scheme on the same level as was foisted on us by the GALP, because every other country is nowhere near is stupid or economically dangerous as the GALP was to go it alone with an industry wide tax.

Mores the point, it would seem that taxing carbon is throwing money away because the global temp has been static despite rising CO2 so the theory the tax is based on is unravelling before your very eyes.

[Ravi]

Yes they are, the European union has an ETS - the uk has a carbon floor price and sweden has its own carbon tax, The USA has two regional schemes, China has 6 regional cap and trade schemes - which will be monitored in order to make the best decision for nation wide scheme and Australia has dropped the lot and is hoping to plant a few trees or something

[IQS.RLOW]

None of which are anything like the tax we just got rid of.
None of them are industry wide.
None of them are country wide.

Just saying they have some kind of carbon abatement scheme doesn't mean they are anywhere near having a scheme that is able to lock into a world wide implementable scheme.

None of them will either. They are all just paying lip service because you will need, China, the US and India to all be on the same page and I will tell you right now, that will never ever happen.

You might wish for one (god knows why some people believe that a tax can save the world Thats got idiocy written all over it) but you will never get it. Australia has drop it, Canada is out, South Korea is gone, China will never have it, India is paying lip service.

All of the 'supposed' countries on board have flooded the market with free carbon credits and the rest have levels set so low it is a pointless exercise.

The carbon boogeyman is dead. Good riddance to it. It is a scam.

[Ravi]

I am under no illusion that a tax can save the world but I do think that abandoning all forms of carbon pricing will lead to problems. I think China will come on board in a big way, they have no choice considering the pollution they create and the huge medical implications (costs) into the future of living with the smog they create. I dont see how jumping up and down with glee at the prospect of a open slather for pollution and carbon emmissions and the reduction of funding to alternative methods of energy creation, is at all useful or wise.
It is insanity that a place like Germany can boast being able to produce 50% of its power needs via solar energy when a country like Australia with more sun coming out of its proverbial arse cannot claim anything like that.

[AiA in Atlanta]

It is insanity that a place like Germany can boast being able to produce 50% of its power needs via solar energy when a country like Australia with more sun coming out of its proverbial arse cannot claim anything like that.

Germany got its sights set on eliminating nuclear power decades ago by any means. It can be done. Intention is the first step. Determination is the second. Problem is, most politicians care fuck all about the long-term because by then they will be out of office.

[Ravi]

Problem is, most politicians care fuck all about the long-term because by then they will be out of office.

I could not agree more

[IQS.RLOW]

That you try and equate Chinas smog issues with carbon, along with this quote,

It is insanity that a place like Germany can boast being able to produce 50% of its power needs via solar energy when a country like Australia with more sun coming out of its proverbial arse cannot claim anything like that.

...tells me you know very little about what you are championing.

Tell me, is that German 50% all the time or was it but a few hours on a sunny afternoon and at an exorbitant cost? Solar is not efficient, its not free and it makes power more expensive for everyone while doing nothing to reduce carbon emissions.

Do you know how much CO2 is produced in making a solar panel that is at best 22% efficient?
Solar PV power is a false economy cheered by idiots that have no idea on how power distribution or an economy works.

[IQS.RLOW]

It is insanity that a place like Germany can boast being able to produce 50% of its power needs via solar energy when a country like Australia with more sun coming out of its proverbial arse cannot claim anything like that.

Germany got its sights set on eliminating nuclear power decades ago by any means. It can be done. Intention is the first step. Determination is the second. Problem is, most politicians care fuck all about the long-term because by then they will be out of office.

Germany only cared about Green politics, not the practicalities. How fortunate for them they can still suck down nuclear power from neighbouring countries after they shut their reactors down and then claim that they don't use nuclear Just as well they are bringing online more of those dirty coal fired plants.

Do you find it strange that if your 50% claim was correct, why would they build new coal fired plants? Why not just increase the solar panels? After all, you said they were getting 50% of their power needs from solar. Why don't they get even more instead of coal?

[Ravi]

feel free to roll your eyes at me, I could give a rats arse and if it makes you feel superior then what ever, I am not saying the smog is a carbon issue just that China will move away from fossil fuels in general as a result of the smog issues, this will have a direct affect on our mining revenue, causing closures and reduced production and so higher prices and as we have shelved or are shelving any alternate methods of energy production this will have a direct affect on us all.

As for the high cost of electricity in Germany, this is not a direct result of the use of solar panels, solar energy is part of the cost but taxes and fees which are not related to the solar levy at all have increased at a comparable rate, meaning that even if there was no renewable energy programme in germany it would still have one of the highest rates of residential energy tarrifs in the world. You cannot blame the high power cost on renewables alone.

The cost of PV in Germany has decreased significantly since 2007 with of drop of around 4 euro per watt due to the solar pv support programme, an early investment which has payed off considerably. It is also important to note that by feeding energy made by solar and other renewables into the grid this creates a benifit for wholesale customers as they use that energy without the extra costs associated with the levy and then use less dirty energy and the cost of health issues and such associated with the dirty energy are then deminished.

I do not think that solar energy is the answer to all our problems but I do think it is ridiculous that we are unable to utilise the renewable energy to the same or greater extent to countries that do not have the luxury of year round sunny days.