Go Clive, You Beauty

[DaS Energy]

Clive a sitting Member of Parliament has challenged his peer Greg Hunt over his taking of monies Carbon Tax from the people.

It no offence to challenge a law so long the challenge is shown worthy. Clive's challenge to keep handing money to Greg by way of Carbon Tax has good merit. Greg and friends take money from Carbon/Coal at its point of ownership transfer. Greg Hunt and friends claim to still own the Carbon after point of sale is double dipping and has no honesty.

Those last three words suit Greg Hunt to a Tee.

Despite Greg Hunt protesting it should not happen he's grabbing Billions while he can. Greg's love of Sovereign Risk saw Julia abuse it with a Carbon Tax we never have, and now Greg scooping in wads of money instead of refusing to take it until Carbon Tax challenge is withdrawn or Judicial Order made it continue being collected.

[mantra]

This whole deal of "repealing the carbon tax" is based on a false premise. Why haven't Abbott & Co. been spruiking the fact that we have signed up to an International Carbon trading scheme to commence on the 14th July - either this year or next year depending on whether the date has been officially moved forward? We can't get out of this and it's going to be a lot worse for business than a fixed carbon price, which most companies are being subsidised for.

We will have to deal strictly with world energy prices in the future and although they might appear low now - these prices per tonne will fluctuate greatly.

Energy prices will remain unchanged regardless of the carbon tax being removed as stated by our energy suppliers, but the government will save money because they will no longer have to subsidise those on lower incomes or specific industries.

From the start of the flexible price period, entities with a liability to surrender emission units will be able to use emission units from international markets, including the EU ETS, to acquit up to 50 per cent of their annual liabilities. Liable entities will also be able to surrender emission units generated under Kyoto Protocol mechanisms including the Clean Development Mechanism and the Joint Implementation mechanism. For the first flexible price compliance year in 2014 - 15, a limit of 6.25 per cent of an entity's overall liability will apply to the use of Kyoto units, moving to 12.5 per cent from 1 July 2015

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/sites/c ... ng-ets.PDF

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[Rorschach]

This whole deal of "repealing the carbon tax" is based on a false premise. Why haven't Abbott & Co. been spruiking the fact that we have signed up to an International Carbon trading scheme to commence on the 14th July - either this year or next year depending on whether the date has been officially moved forward? We can't get out of this and it's going to be a lot worse for business than a fixed carbon price, which most companies are being subsidised for.

We will have to deal strictly with world energy prices in the future and although they might appear low now - these prices per tonne will fluctuate greatly.

Energy prices will remain unchanged regardless of the carbon tax being removed as stated by our energy suppliers, but the government will save money because they will no longer have to subsidise those on lower incomes or specific industries.

From the start of the flexible price period, entities with a liability to surrender emission units will be able to use emission units from international markets, including the EU ETS, to acquit up to 50 per cent of their annual liabilities. Liable entities will also be able to surrender emission units generated under Kyoto Protocol mechanisms including the Clean Development Mechanism and the Joint Implementation mechanism. For the first flexible price compliance year in 2014 - 15, a limit of 6.25 per cent of an entity's overall liability will apply to the use of Kyoto units, moving to 12.5 per cent from 1 July 2015

http://www.climatechange.gov.au/sites/c ... ng-ets.PDF

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Rubbish, rubbish and more rubbish mantra.....
You better get on your bike and start posting some facts.

As for your so called Kyoto commitments...

Australia hasn't, however, moved to ratify this second commitment and April will be a test, as will June when ministers are due to meet to discuss those proposals.

As for the ETS...

Australia, by contrast, is poised to become the first country in the world to dismantle a functioning carbon market.

[mantra]

As for your so called Kyoto commitments...

Australia hasn't, however, moved to ratify this second commitment and April will be a test, as will June when ministers are due to meet to discuss those proposals.

As for the ETS...

Australia, by contrast, is poised to become the first country in the world to dismantle a functioning carbon market.

Maybe you're right. I thought the international agreement we signed up to was binding, but it looks like Abbott has the power to make it disappear. I assume this means we won't be competitive in international markets unless someone comes up with a better idea of cutting carbon.

Tony Abbott, the newly elected prime minister, has tried to reassure skeptics around the world that Australia still intends to cut greenhouse gases by 5 percent from the level in 2000 by 2020. He plans to ban Australian emitters from buying carbon credits outside the country, in a break with the previous administration.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-12-0 ... curbs.html

[Rorschach]

The EU carbon market may cease shortly anyway, it's not like we are a part of Europe anyway.
or that an ETS will stop climate change any more than the tax has we already have.

[AiA in Atlanta]

an ACTUAL civil discussion between you two? i expect a polar vortex to engulf australia by this time tomorrow

[DaS Energy]

Not yet touched on is the genius of purchasing overseas goods in the form of Carbon Tax credits so the Carbon Tax is money not going to Australians.

[mantra]

Not yet touched on is the genius of purchasing overseas goods in the form of Carbon Tax credits so the Carbon Tax is money not going to Australians.

According to DFAT only 15% of our trade is with Europe - so perhaps the government thinks it's a small sacrifice. Maybe they believe that what we lose with Europe - we can pick up in our Asian trade agreements? This seems unlikely though. I don't like the thought of an ETS much - we're better off with the national carbon tax. It helps a little in reducing emissions and provides some revenue. So far the current government hasn't come up with anything better. Getting rid of the carbon tax and the miniscule mining tax won't benefit us in any way, especially as the many of the major emitters are starting to pack their bags. The promise of repealing the tax isn't encouraging anyone to stay.

https://www.dfat.gov.au/publications/st ... e-2012.pdf

[Rorschach]

Carbon pricing?????
How much has it helped global emissions mantra?
They are still increasing.
All it has done is made a lot of Australian people worse off, especially the poor.
It's not true to say the current government don't have an alternative. They do.
Getting rid of the Carbon Tax will make power usage cheaper, it would have been better and easier to keep track of if the last government ensured it was listed separately on our bills though.
If the government get it right the cost of living will be affected and prices for a great number of things will drop. Remember just the other day it was pointed out that the tax affected over 75,000 companies and in return us.

Who are packing their bags? why are they? Not sure what you are getting at.

[DaS Energy]

Carbon pricing?????
How much has it helped global emissions mantra?
They are still increasing.
All it has done is made a lot of Australian people worse off, especially the poor.
It's not true to say the current government don't have an alternative. They do.
Getting rid of the Carbon Tax will make power usage cheaper, it would have been better and easier to keep track of if the last government ensured it was listed separately on our bills though.
If the government get it right the cost of living will be affected and prices for a great number of things will drop. Remember just the other day it was pointed out that the tax affected over 75,000 companies and in return us.

Who are packing their bags? why are they? Not sure what you are getting at.

I agree,

The $9 Billion in tax so far accounted has not lowered Carbon emissions nor electricity prices. It has seen that power producers are without $9 Billion to assist in converting to cheap green power 24/7. This appears a deliberate action to stop any real conversion away from the highly expensive Steam generated electricity.