Carbon Tax Repeal

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Rorschach
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Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by Rorschach » Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:33 am

yeah we've been over all that crap when he first joined...
I just ignore him.
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some guy in the states heads it all up... apparently some known scam.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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Chard
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Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by Chard » Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:27 pm

Well I'll be damned, Rosch. For once we're in agreement about something. Someone go check Hell's thermostat, probably getting a little cold down there right about now...
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

DaS Energy

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by DaS Energy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:07 am

Chard,

"Seriously, trying to claim numbers based on 100% efficiency as an Ideal Gas is fucking hilarious"

An ideal gas is a theoretical gas composed of a set of randomly moving, non-interacting point particles.Many gases such as air, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, noble gases, and some heavier gases like carbon dioxide can be treated like ideal gases within reasonable tolerances.The ideal gas model tends to fail at lower temperatures or higher pressures.

DaS Energy

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by DaS Energy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:10 am

Chard,

"trying to claim numbers based on 100% efficiency"

Post copy or face exposure for the sperm breath liar you are! :Hi

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Chard
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Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by Chard » Wed Nov 20, 2013 2:35 pm

DaS Energy wrote:An ideal gas is a theoretical gas composed of a set of randomly moving, non-interacting point particles.Many gases such as air, nitrogen, oxygen, hydrogen, noble gases, and some heavier gases like carbon dioxide can be treated like ideal gases within reasonable tolerances.The ideal gas model tends to fail at lower temperatures or higher pressures.
Which is why you used a phase diagram as a prop?

Anyways, while I'm at it, you are aware that CO2 has shit thermal transfer properties compared to water steam, right? And that it isn't anywhere near as good a neutron moderator? Both those means you can' use it in either the reactor side of the heat exchange system for a nuclear plant or for the generator side.

Even better, you're completely defeating the purpose of reducing carbon footprint of an electrical generation system by using fuckmothering pressurized carbon dioxide in the heat exchange system.

Seriously, shut the fuck up, already.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

DaS Energy

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by DaS Energy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:23 pm

CO2 natural Refrigerant R744. No mention ideal.
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DaS Energy

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by DaS Energy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 4:26 pm

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Properties of Saturated Steam - Pressure in Bar

The Saturated Steam Table with properties as boiling point, specific volume, density, specific enthalpy, specific heat and latent heat of vaporization


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Absolute
pressure Boiling point Specific volume (steam) Density (steam) Specific enthalpy of liquid water (sensible heat) Specific enthalpy of steam
(total heat) Latent heat of vaporization Specific heat
(bar) (oC) (m3/kg) (kg/m3) (kJ/kg) (kcal/kg) (kJ/kg) (kcal/kg) (kJ/kg) (kcal/kg) (kJ/kg.K)

0.02 17.51 67.006 0.015 73.45 17.54 2533.64 605.15 2460.19 587.61 1.8644
0.03 24.10 45.667 0.022 101.00 24.12 2545.64 608.02 2444.65 583.89 1.8694
0.04 28.98 34.802 0.029 121.41 29.00 2554.51 610.13 2433.10 581.14 1.8736
0.05 32.90 28.194 0.035 137.77 32.91 2561.59 611.83 2423.82 578.92 1.8774
0.06 36.18 23.741 0.042 151.50 36.19 2567.51 613.24 2416.01 577.05 1.8808
0.07 39.02 20.531 0.049 163.38 39.02 2572.62 614.46 2409.24 575.44 1.8840
0.08 41.53 18.105 0.055 173.87 41.53 2577.11 615.53 2403.25 574.01 1.8871
0.09 43.79 16.204 0.062 183.28 43.78 2581.14 616.49 2397.85 572.72 1.8899
0.1 45.83 14.675 0.068 191.84 45.82 2584.78 617.36 2392.94 571.54 1.8927
0.2 60.09 7.650 0.131 251.46 60.06 2609.86 623.35 2358.40 563.30 1.9156
0.3 69.13 5.229 0.191 289.31 69.10 2625.43 627.07 2336.13 557.97 1.9343
0.4 75.89 3.993 0.250 317.65 75.87 2636.88 629.81 2319.23 553.94 1.9506
0.5 81.35 3.240 0.309 340.57 81.34 2645.99 631.98 2305.42 550.64 1.9654
0.6 85.95 2.732 0.366 359.93 85.97 2653.57 633.79 2293.64 547.83 1.9790
0.7 89.96 2.365 0.423 376.77 89.99 2660.07 635.35 2283.30 545.36 1.9919
0.8 93.51 2.087 0.479 391.73 93.56 2665.77 636.71 2274.05 543.15 2.0040
0.9 96.71 1.869 0.535 405.21 96.78 2670.85 637.92 2265.65 541.14 2.0156
1 99.63 1.694 0.590 417.51 99.72 2675.43 639.02 2257.92 539.30 2.0267
1.1 102.32 1.549 0.645 428.84 102.43 2679.61 640.01 2250.76 537.59 2.0373
1.2 104.81 1.428 0.700 439.36 104.94 2683.44 640.93 2244.08 535.99 2.0476
1.3 107.13 1.325 0.755 449.19 107.29 2686.98 641.77 2237.79 534.49 2.0576
1.4 109.32 1.236 0.809 458.42 109.49 2690.28 642.56 2231.86 533.07 2.0673
1.5 111.37 1.159 0.863 467.13 111.57 2693.36 643.30 2226.23 531.73 2.0768
1.5 111.37 1.159 0.863 467.13 111.57 2693.36 643.30 2226.23 531.73 2.0768
1.6 113.32 1.091 0.916 475.38 113.54 2696.25 643.99 2220.87 530.45 2.0860
1.7 115.17 1.031 0.970 483.22 115.42 2698.97 644.64 2215.75 529.22 2.0950
1.8 116.93 0.977 1.023 490.70 117.20 2701.54 645.25 2210.84 528.05 2.1037
1.9 118.62 0.929 1.076 497.85 118.91 2703.98 645.83 2206.13 526.92 2.1124
2 120.23 0.885 1.129 504.71 120.55 2706.29 646.39 2201.59 525.84 2.1208
2.2 123.27 0.810 1.235 517.63 123.63 2710.60 647.42 2192.98 523.78 2.1372
2.4 126.09 0.746 1.340 529.64 126.50 2714.55 648.36 2184.91 521.86 2.1531
2.6 128.73 0.693 1.444 540.88 129.19 2718.17 649.22 2177.30 520.04 2.1685
2.8 131.20 0.646 1.548 551.45 131.71 2721.54 650.03 2170.08 518.32 2.1835
3 133.54 0.606 1.651 561.44 134.10 2724.66 650.77 2163.22 516.68 2.1981
3.5 138.87 0.524 1.908 584.28 139.55 2731.63 652.44 2147.35 512.89 2.2331
4 143.63 0.462 2.163 604.68 144.43 2737.63 653.87 2132.95 509.45 2.2664
4.5 147.92 0.414 2.417 623.17 148.84 2742.88 655.13 2119.71 506.29 2.2983
5 151.85 0.375 2.669 640.12 152.89 2747.54 656.24 2107.42 503.35 2.3289
5.5 155.47 0.342 2.920 655.81 156.64 2751.70 657.23 2095.90 500.60 2.3585
6 158.84 0.315 3.170 670.43 160.13 2755.46 658.13 2085.03 498.00 2.3873
6.5 161.99 0.292 3.419 684.14 163.40 2758.87 658.94 2074.73 495.54 2.4152
7 164.96 0.273 3.667 697.07 166.49 2761.98 659.69 2064.92 493.20 2.4424
7.5 167.76 0.255 3.915 709.30 169.41 2764.84 660.37 2055.53 490.96 2.4690
8 170.42 0.240 4.162 720.94 172.19 2767.46 661.00 2046.53 488.80 2.4951
8.5 172.94 0.227 4.409 732.03 174.84 2769.89 661.58 2037.86 486.73 2.5206
9 175.36 0.215 4.655 742.64 177.38 2772.13 662.11 2029.49 484.74 2.5456
9.5 177.67 0.204 4.901 752.82 179.81 2774.22 662.61 2021.40 482.80 2.5702
10 179.88 0.194 5.147 762.60 182.14 2776.16 663.07 2013.56 480.93 2.5944
11 184.06 0.177 5.638 781.11 186.57 2779.66 663.91 1998.55 477.35 2.6418
12 187.96 0.163 6.127 798.42 190.70 2782.73 664.64 1984.31 473.94 2.6878
13 191.60 0.151 6.617 814.68 194.58 2785.42 665.29 1970.73 470.70 2.7327
14 195.04 0.141 7.106 830.05 198.26 2787.79 665.85 1957.73 467.60 2.7767
15 198.28 0.132 7.596 844.64 201.74 2789.88 666.35 1945.24 464.61 2.8197
16 201.37 0.124 8.085 858.54 205.06 2791.73 666.79 1933.19 461.74 2.8620
17 204.30 0.117 8.575 871.82 208.23 2793.37 667.18 1921.55 458.95 2.9036
18 207.11 0.110 9.065 884.55 211.27 2794.81 667.53 1910.27 456.26 2.9445
19 209.79 0.105 9.556 896.78 214.19 2796.09 667.83 1899.31 453.64 2.9849
20 212.37 0.100 10.047 908.56 217.01 2797.21 668.10 1888.65 451.10 3.0248
21 214.85 0.095 10.539 919.93 219.72 2798.18 668.33 1878.25 448.61 3.0643
22 217.24 0.091 11.032 930.92 222.35 2799.03 668.54 1868.11 446.19 3.1034
23 219.55 0.087 11.525 941.57 224.89 2799.77 668.71 1858.20 443.82 3.1421
24 221.78 0.083 12.020 951.90 227.36 2800.39 668.86 1848.49 441.50 3.1805
25 223.94 0.080 12.515 961.93 229.75 2800.91 668.99 1838.98 439.23 3.2187
26 226.03 0.077 13.012 971.69 232.08 2801.35 669.09 1829.66 437.01 3.2567
27 228.06 0.074 13.509 981.19 234.35 2801.69 669.17 1820.50 434.82 3.2944
28 230.04 0.071 14.008 990.46 236.57 2801.96 669.24 1811.50 432.67 3.3320
29 231.96 0.069 14.508 999.50 238.73 2802.15 669.28 1802.65 430.56 3.3695
30 233.84 0.067 15.009 1008.33 240.84 2802.27 669.31 1793.94 428.48 3.4069

Example - Boiling Water at 100 oC, 0 bar Atmospheric Pressure

At atmospheric pressure (0 bar g, absolute 1 bar ), water boils at 100 oC, and 417.51 kJ of energy are required to heat 1 kg of water from 0 oC to its evaporating temperature of 100 oC.

Therefore the specific enthalpy of water at 0 bar g (absolute 1 bar ) and 100 oC is 417.51 kJ/kg, as shown in the table.

Another 2257.92 kJ of energy are required to evaporate 1 kg of water at 100 oC into 1 kg of steam at 100 oC. Therefore at 0 bar g (absolute 1 bar) the specific enthalpy of evaporation is 2257.19 kJ/kg, as shown in the table.

Total specific enthalpy for steam:


hs = (417.51 kJ/kg) + (2257.92 kJ/kg)

= 2675.43 kJ/kg

Example - Boiling Water at 170 oC, 7 bar Atmospheric Pressure

Steam at atmospheric pressure is of a limited practical use because it cannot be conveyed under its own pressure along a steam pipe to the point of use.

At 7 bar g (absolute 8 bar), the saturation temperature of water is 170.42 oC. More heat energy is required to raise its temperature to saturation point at 7 bar g than would be needed if the water were at atmospheric pressure. The table gives a value of 720.94 kJ to raise 1 kg of water from 0 oC to its saturation temperature of 170 oC.

The heat energy (enthalpy of evaporation) needed by the water at 7 bar g to change it into steam is actually less than the heat energy required at atmospheric pressure. This is because the specific enthalpy of evaporation decreases as the steam pressure increases. The evaporation heat is 2046.53 kJ/kg according the table.
•Note! Because the specific volume also decreases with increasing pressure, the amount of heat energy transferred in the same volume actually increases with steam pressure.


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User avatar
Chard
Posts: 621
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2013 3:05 pm
Location: Mein Führer! I can walk!

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by Chard » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:07 am

Even better, dumbshit can't even read a phase diagram right. At the tempuratures an pressures he's suggesting (100C@10kbar), never ming actual operating temps and pressures of a commercial powerplant's heat exchange system, CO2 is a supercritical fluid (or possibly a solid while you're bringing the system up to operating temp/pressure or local temp/pressure inside the system. Yes, Das is proposing a system that could clog itself with hot ice or leak boiling supercritical fluids that flash into gas and soffocate anyone in the area), yet another example of shitknuckle not having any goddamn idea what he's talking about.

See, Das, I'm not impressed by someone dropping copy-pasta from a text book, especially when the dumbass doing it doesn't have the first fucking clue of what any of it actually means.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy the FEAR to attack. - Dr. Strangelove

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Rorschach
Posts: 14801
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:25 pm

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by Rorschach » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:19 am

None of this has anything to do with the actual topic of course... can I suggest don't feed the dumbarse troll.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

DaS Energy

Re: Carbon Tax Repeal

Post by DaS Energy » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:47 am

by Chard » Thu Nov 21, 2013 2:07 am

You not repeat your post Steam the most efficient, now why is that?

According to you Steam is the most efficient because it has 200 bar pressure at +600*C and CO2 is less efficient because it has the same pressure at only +50*C.

Steam is not charted above +600*C but CO2 at +100*C (the boiling point of water) is charted 10,000 bar.

Gollee such inefficiency of CO2 and only you noticed! :f

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