The God Of Big Whales and Chimp Water Rides

[boxy]

You seem very proud of something that transcends ego

[JW Frogen]

There are no words for God experience, no human emotion or reason can encompass it.

But if a word would have to be used, or rather phrase, gratitude-bliss would apply more than pride. Pride would be more an emotion of one's temporary actions (should they act with result that merits it), to experience God is to experience the limitations of pride, of individual life itself, trancend that (if only for a moment) to the whole, but this does not require a negation of the existence of pride or it's use in temporal individual life.

The disdainment of pride is more a Buddist or Christian idea, but if pride comes from a life lived (or parts of that life) well or nobely then there is nothing disdain, it is simply one good part of an infinate whole.

[TomB]

I really have no fucking idea what you dribbled on about Frogen but belief in a god is self limiting and ultimately destructive.

A truly free person has no use for a deity.

[JW Frogen]

It would seem to me that you have simply presented a slogan you believe with not even conviction enough (or even more important experience) to flesh out a post that attempts to demonstrate it.

To the point at hand, most direct experience traditions, Sufis, Zen, Quakerism all have one thing in common, the realisation or experience that existence, meaning in being, trancends limiations of the self, where as the atheist only has the self in which to premise meaning in being, or reliquish to an empty nihilism, individual being as all meaning.

Both atheist options, by definition, are limiting.

[TomB]

Logic and reason has no place in a discussion about your god. Nothing anybody says will have the slightest effect on you because you will believe no matter what.

In time all of humanity will be educated and intelligent enough so that every individual reaches the point of non-belief of their own accord and they will look back and say "did people really believe in a god? How primitive."



I've just had another thought.
You raise this issue often enough that I actually suspect you are hoping somebody will give you a good enough argument for you to turn atheist because you are ashamed of your god. Of course no such argument is possible because your god is magic and can do anything so can't be defeated with logic.

[Roger Mellie]

I've just had another thought.
You raise this issue often enough that I actually suspect you are hoping somebody will give you a good enough argument for you to turn atheist because you are ashamed of your god. Of course no such argument is possible because your god is magic and can do anything so can't be defeated with logic.

If your Frogen Jargon 3000 is stuck on certain subjects and repeating itself it may be caught in a loop. Close the application and try again. If the problem persists you can download a patch.

[Auzgurl]

I've just had another thought.
You raise this issue often enough that I actually suspect you are hoping somebody will give you a good enough argument for you to turn atheist because you are ashamed of your god. Of course no such argument is possible because your god is magic and can do anything so can't be defeated with logic.

If your Frogen Jargon 3000 is stuck on certain subjects and repeating itself it may be caught in a loop. Close the application and try again. If the problem persists you can download a patch.

cat got your goat Roger ?..that was very restrained.

[JW Frogen]

Logic and reason has no place in a discussion about your god. Nothing anybody says will have the slightest effect on you because you will believe no matter what.

In time all of humanity will be educated and intelligent enough so that every individual reaches the point of non-belief of their own accord and they will look back and say "did people really believe in a god? How primitive."

I've just had another thought.
You raise this issue often enough that I actually suspect you are hoping somebody will give you a good enough argument for you to turn atheist because you are ashamed of your god. Of course no such argument is possible because your god is magic and can do anything so can't be defeated with logic.

If there is no God, if the universal cultural (not individual) belief in God that has manifested itself through all of human history, that belief held by most humans through all of history is just a delusion, then logic and reason should certainly have a place, indeed an easy task of explaining it all away.

Your assertion (one I am not even sure you are self-aware of) that atheism requires no logic or reason to back it up is in itself an act of faith. Take all the time you need to think about that.

As to intelligence, well you must think highly of yourself to assert you are more intelligent than Newton or Einstein, Aristotle or Socrates, Aquinas or Spinoza, Yeats, Michelangelo, Gandhi or Martin Luther King Jr., the thousands of intelligent people who have walked this planet, indeed changed it, all believing in God.

You demonstrate the ego point clearly. One must wonder about the need to tell themselves that just because they have not had God experience (or been aware of it) those who have must be unintelligent, despite the evidence of their lives and accomplishments.

As to shame, it is a facile way to discuss the subject, invent premises not inherent in the posts you are responding to, but I will address the subject even if you have not demonstrated it’s relevance. The purpose of being, God, the infinite meaning, the Toa (what ever word your culture claims for it) is not an experience that can shame. No more than shame is really relevant to experiencing beautiful natural wonders. (Unless one, like the atheist, has spent their entire life attempting to deny and then realized all the wasted time.)

It is one of the interesting aspects of the direct experience religions as well, dispite their divergent starting points in time and culture, the simularity of joy, bliss, gratitude that all express. Shame never enters into it. Shame is more an emotion of personal ego, (so the fundamentalist, who has taken on the voice of God through interpretation of text might equate lack of faith as shame, but not those who have directly experienced God), and shame is certainly inherent in any atheist who claims only atheists can be intelligent. Certainly there should be shame at least concerning the ignorance of human history required to believe that?

One would think? If they are thinking.

[JW Frogen]

[cat got your goat Roger ?..that was very restrained.

Roger always restrains himself to one subject and one subject only, his obsession with Frogen.

He cannot discuss God, religion, politics, art, sport, or pretty much anything at all.

Stalkers are by definition obsessed with one thing in the attempt to avoid one other thing, their own life.

Do tell us when the lambs stop screaming Roger.

Or if?

[JW Frogen]

Who says whales do not have a religion? Afterall, they have blow holes.