Australia: Never a World Power?

[Chard]

Phoenix, Arizona (in the middle of a miserable desert) is America's least sustainable city because it's water supply comes from far, far away. More than likely the city will one day dwindle and possibly disappear.

There's certain industrial and military concerns in that area that essentially means Phoenix isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The US as a nation would disappear before human migration and the elements will be able to claim that town.

The enormous Ogallala Aquifer that keeps the American Great Plains green for farmers is almost depleted.

I've been hearing people say that about Ogallala my entire life and it never ceases to amuse me people still keep saying it. I'll bet they'll still be saying it when I'm 80.

Chard's solutions are temporary at best.

Ye, so temporary they've only been working just fine for decades now. Now you see why we're a world power and Australia will never be one. While you pussies are busy whinging about the problem we're busy laying the infrastructure to solve the problem.

[Super Nova]

Chard's solutions are temporary at best.

Ye, so temporary they've only been working just fine for decades now. Now you see why we're a world power and Australia will never be one. While you pussies are busy whinging about the problem we're busy laying the infrastructure to solve the problem.

I love that blunt statement and there is some truth in it. We have failed to rise to address some of the big infrastructure issue if we truly going to be competitive.

[Super Nova]

Just add...

Since the snowy mountain dam and the hydro electric scheme and the irrigation areas in mildura and riverina when was the last major infrastructure project... that enhanced the land.. nbn is excluded.

[Rorschach]

Just add...

Since the snowy mountain dam and the hydro electric scheme and the irrigation areas in mildura and riverina when was the last major infrastructure project... that enhanced the land.. nbn is excluded.

Ord River Project and Lake Argyle... WA.

[Jovial_Monk]

Phoenix, Arizona (in the middle of a miserable desert) is America's least sustainable city because it's water supply comes from far, far away. More than likely the city will one day dwindle and possibly disappear.

There's certain industrial and military concerns in that area that essentially means Phoenix isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The US as a nation would disappear before human migration and the elements will be able to claim that town.

The enormous Ogallala Aquifer that keeps the American Great Plains green for farmers is almost depleted.

I've been hearing people say that about Ogallala my entire life and it never ceases to amuse me people still keep saying it. I'll bet they'll still be saying it when I'm 80.

Chard's solutions are temporary at best.

Ye, so temporary they've only been working just fine for decades now. Now you see why we're a world power and Australia will never be one. While you pussies are busy whinging about the problem we're busy laying the infrastructure to solve the problem.

What might save some of those unsustainable places—climate change increasing the moisture content of the atmosphere and so is increasing the amount of precipitation. This feature of AGW is why a few glaciers, positioned just right, are growing rather than shrinking like all other glaciers, the icesheets of Greenland and Antartica.

[AiA in Atlanta]

Phoenix, Arizona (in the middle of a miserable desert) is America's least sustainable city because it's water supply comes from far, far away. More than likely the city will one day dwindle and possibly disappear.

There's certain industrial and military concerns in that area that essentially means Phoenix isn't going anywhere anytime soon. The US as a nation would disappear before human migration and the elements will be able to claim that town.

The enormous Ogallala Aquifer that keeps the American Great Plains green for farmers is almost depleted.

I've been hearing people say that about Ogallala my entire life and it never ceases to amuse me people still keep saying it. I'll bet they'll still be saying it when I'm 80.

Chard's solutions are temporary at best.

Ye, so temporary they've only been working just fine for decades now. Now you see why we're a world power and Australia will never be one. While you pussies are busy whinging about the problem we're busy laying the infrastructure to solve the problem.

Ogalla has dropped 80 feet in a few short decades. When you are 80 people will be saying it has dropped 100 feet.

You don't think modern cities can dwindle and possibly disappear? Modern hubris.

[Chard]

Ogalla has dropped 80 feet in a few short decades. When you are 80 people will be saying it has dropped 100 feet.

Considering there is no scientific consensus on how deep the Ogallala aquifer is or even what constitutes "depth" in an aquifer system stretching across eight states, I'm going to call bullshit. 80ft reletive to what? What location was this measurement taken at? What is the depth of the water table at that location and how deep does water bearing strata go down to there? Is that 80ft figure an average across sevreral sights, and if so what was the water table depth and water bearing depth at each site and how was the 80ft figure calculated?

We're not talking about a fucking lake here, guy. The Ogallala is a series of subterranean lakes, rivers, and and porous rock formations stretching over 1500 miles from South Dakota in the north to Texas in the south, so any claims about absolute depth or rates of recharge/discharge across the entire system are specious at best.

You don't think modern cities can dwindle and possibly disappear? Modern hubris.

We've had cities decline, and in some cases they might even disappear entirely. The thing is, climate rarely has anything to do with it. Anyway, we'll keep making deserts and scrub plains productive and economically viable cities and states while you guys bitch and whine about how you can't do the same.

[Jovial_Monk]

Actually, the Mayan Empire crashed due to environmental reasons, and so did the culture that built Angkor Wat just for two examples.

Then, a really severe El Nino like 3000 years ago all but wiped out Ancient Egypt.

[Chard]

Actually, the Mayan Empire crashed due to environmental reasons,

Bullshit. Provide evidence that proves a scientific consensus for a specific reason for the Mayan empire's collapse.

and so did the culture that built Angkor Wat just for two examples.

Bullshit. Angkor Wat was never fully abandoned in the first place and the culture that built it is still there today (seriously, you just suggested that Cambodia somehow disappeared until the 20th century, guy). Secondly, it was a 13th Century shift from Hindu to Bhuddism that caused Angkor Wat's use to decline. But by all means, go ahead and show me a credible source showing a scientific consensus that Angkor Wat was abandoned due to environmental reasons.

Then, a really severe El Nino like 3000 years ago all but wiped out Ancient Egypt.

That's news for the entire fucking field of Egyptology, guy. Seriously, Egyptian society has been around in one for or another since 3050BC, and it wasn't until Islam spread into the area that classic Egyptian social and political society finally fell by the wayside.

Learn your goddamn history, son.

[Jovial_Monk]

No, that is not bullshit. I said almost wiped out—a remnant survived in Upper Egypt. Seriously—do some reading.

Empires that remove all trees, let water sources and irrigation works decline or populations increase beyond a sustainable level eventually crash.