America WILL NOT protect us.

[mantra.]

No economic concessions should be granted to China concerning mineral ownership, nor is such and economic appeasement policy needed.

Nuclear weapons (unless they find their way into the hands of Islamo Fascist terrorists) are really superpower containment options, they would not be used against Australia, and even a crumbling economic power can maintain an effective nuclear deterrence, as the Russia did in the 90s, so the US superiority in this regard will hold and deter China for decades to come.

Let's hope you're right. After reading that particular article - Monk is right - we should use some of the future fund to protect us, although our politicians may not want to put their future superannuation at risk and could be prepared to sacrifice the country for their own interests.

[Jovial Monk]

The FF is PS and military super, not the pollies. Investing $40Bn in Rio right now would be a great medium term thing to do. Just think if we still had that $400Bn the Rodent frittered away buying elections

[JW Frogen]

We do not need to invest one penny in Rio, all we have to do is prevent Chinese ownership.

[Jovial Monk]

So, you want Rio to go broke???

[Super Nova]

Frogen,

An excellent read. Thanks.

Do you envisage that in the future there will be a real need for military solutions for protecting Australia. The big and powerful countries must be starting to reach the point where only political solutions are viable. The big powerful countries will use the military power to sort out the small and dangerous countries.

China is not so backward. They are not planning to spead their doctorine around the world for now.

However i do think their doctorine is probably a closer model to what the world will look like in a few hundred years as compared to the west.

[JW Frogen]

So, you want Rio to go broke???

I don't care about Rio, any Western, democratic company can dig those expensive rocks out when, WHEN, China needs them again.

Just not a Chinese owned company.

[JW Frogen]

Frogen,

An excellent read. Thanks.

Do you envisage that in the future there will be a real need for military solutions for protecting Australia. The big and powerful countries must be starting to reach the point where only political solutions are viable. The big powerful countries will use the military power to sort out the small and dangerous countries.

China is not so backward. They are not planning to spead their doctorine around the world for now.

However i do think their doctorine is probably a closer model to what the world will look like in a few hundred years as compared to the west.

I do not think China is backward at all, they have played the trade game like a pro, protecting their own weakness while exposing free trade where they are strong. Controlling the value of their currency while the US foolishly floated and worshiped the Golden Calf.

The Chinese are the smartest economic power on the planet.

But I think human dignity and civilization requires more than a successful market, it requires human rights and more than a foreign policy much like Star Trek's Ferengi (which the Chinese presently resemble.)

So my concern is about a total relationship with China, using power where needed (every civilization understands power) and cooperation where we can.

[helian]

Frogen

All good points… And China even at the height of its power historically has not been interested in looking outwards or towards the possibility of an empire far beyond its borders.

I was listening to a podcast interview with Simon Winchester about his book ‘Bomb Book and Compass’ a biography about Dr Joseph Needham who discovered more about Chinese culture during the 1930’s than even the Chinese remembered about themselves.

Basically Needham discovered that up until the beginning of the 18th century the Chinese had invented just about every device and had developed nearly every craft known to humanity… and hundreds of years before the West.

Needham demonstrates that the Chinese are by nature the most prolific inventors the world has ever seen and are in the throes of reclaiming their rightful place on the world stage.

As Winchester says :

I saw a sign outside the Chinese Space Centre in a town called Jin Quan in Qansu provinence which said in English at the bottom of this list of achievements in space, "Without haste, without fear, we will conquer the world". These people have an enormous sense of self confidence, now they don't mean militarily but they will conquer the world - they mean a cultural conquest.

Whether they will emerge from their historic pause as the same inward looking nation they have been for the past 5000 years is yet to be seen.

Check out the podcast and the transcript at

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/inconversation ... 472135.htm

[JW Frogen]

Frogen

All good points… And China even at the height of its power historically has not been interested in looking outwards or towards the possibility of an empire far beyond its borders.

I was listening to a podcast interview with Simon Winchester about his book ‘Bomb Book and Compass’ a biography about Dr Joseph Needham who discovered more about Chinese culture during the 1930’s than even the Chinese remembered about themselves.

Basically Needham discovered that up until the beginning of the 18th century the Chinese had invented just about every device and had developed nearly every craft known to humanity… and hundreds of years before the West.

Needham demonstrates that the Chinese are by nature the most prolific inventors the world has ever seen and are in the throes of reclaiming their rightful place on the world stage.

As Winchester says :

I saw a sign outside the Chinese Space Centre in a town called Jin Quan in Qansu provinence which said in English at the bottom of this list of achievements in space, "Without haste, without fear, we will conquer the world". These people have an enormous sense of self confidence, now they don't mean militarily but they will conquer the world - they mean a cultural conquest.

Whether they will emerge from their historic pause as the same inward looking nation they have been for the past 5000 years is yet to be seen.

Check out the podcast and the transcript at

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/inconversation ... 472135.htm

The Chinese have been remarkable inventors but not always remarkable about how they applied such inventions, for stance gun powder become more than simply fire works when the more dynamic Western Civilization got a hold of it.

Still, China has taken hold of the Western idea of markets and combined it with state control that has provided remarkable results.

As for foreign policy, China has not always been inward looking. Indeed the reason China is so large is that in various periods of her history she has been an expansionist power.

In modern history she has been at war or attacked almost every one of her neighbors, but with the exception of Tibet has never really wished to colones them, only chastise or exploit them.

[Aussie]

Frogen,

An excellent read. Thanks.

Do you envisage that in the future there will be a real need for military solutions for protecting Australia. The big and powerful countries must be starting to reach the point where only political solutions are viable. The big powerful countries will use the military power to sort out the small and dangerous countries.

China is not so backward. They are not planning to spead their doctorine around the world for now.

However i do think their doctorine is probably a closer model to what the world will look like in a few hundred years as compared to the west.

I see your signature has not changed. So:

Didn't you fuck off to DT land and get a big welcome there? What happened, AiA?