Boat people - what is the solution?

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mellie
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by mellie » Sat Jul 20, 2013 10:59 pm

Rorschach wrote:
Why has Rudd publicly announced that he plans to send all those who have already arrived at Nauru to PNG, without having so much as recalled Parliament?
Quote please...
Not only has he announced he plans to stop/turn back the boats, (this is a good thing) but boldly claims he plans to go even further to turn-back the people who have already arrived and have been waiting for months to be processed.


Quote please...
He wanted the excite rage, wanted a riot. 8-)
Didn't the riot occur before the new policy was announced?

Nope!

8-)

The riot came hours after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his hardline crackdown on boat people, although authorities are denying the link.

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal ... 2qaok.html

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:23 pm

Sorry to tell you Mel... but Nope seems to be the wrong answer.
If the riots started at 3 Nauru time and the announcement was at 430 our time that would make it 630 Nauru time...

The riot went on for a long time a witness on Nauru said it actually started at midday and wasn't under control until 10pm.
The riot came hours after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his hardline crackdown on boat people, although authorities are denying a link.
Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal ... z2ZajBfBQV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the journo at the Canberra times cant tell the time. i suspect they are denying the link because the riot started before the agreement came into being and was announced.
The riots began at 3pm, when asylum seekers staged a protest. Authorities evacuated the centre at 4pm, according to local reports.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... z2Zajw6YKT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like I said Nauru are 2 hours in front of us... and several sources have stated the 3pm start time. Which would make it 3.5 hours before the announcement.

I also don't see any quotes or statements in the article backing up what you said previously.
Quotes and links please...
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

mellie
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by mellie » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:28 am

Rorschach wrote:Sorry to tell you Mel... but Nope seems to be the wrong answer.
If the riots started at 3 Nauru time and the announcement was at 430 our time that would make it 630 Nauru time...

The riot went on for a long time a witness on Nauru said it actually started at midday and wasn't under control until 10pm.

You dont suppose smugglers have politcal connections, this and may have known about Rudds plans prior to their being officially announced?

Also, theres the lingering question as to what time the 'actual' riot started.
The riot came hours after Prime Minister Kevin Rudd announced his hardline crackdown on boat people, although authorities are denying a link.
Read more: http://www.canberratimes.com.au/federal ... z2ZajBfBQV" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Looks like the journo at the Canberra times cant tell the time. i suspect they are denying the link because the riot started before the agreement came into being and was announced.
The riots began at 3pm, when asylum seekers staged a protest. Authorities evacuated the centre at 4pm, according to local reports.
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/federal-politi ... z2Zajw6YKT" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Like I said Nauru are 2 hours in front of us... and several sources have stated the 3pm start time. Which would make it 3.5 hours before the announcement

I also don't see any quotes or statements in the article backing up what you said previously.
Quotes and links please...

WRONGO!!

8-)

And...

You dont suppose smugglers have politcal connections, this and may have known about Rudds plans prior to their being officially announced?

It wouldnt be the first Labor 'staffer', like that of Gillard's office to have been implicated in "tipping off" rowdy protestors now afterall.

Recall when a Gillard staffer Tony Hodges was forced to quit after tipping off another group of protesters?

8-)


Our media are being silenced on the matter, are being told not to delve into what may have caused the riot.



And our Immigrations department remain tight lipped and are refusing to answer questions also.


It never happened, OK... And the $60 Million damage bill is also a figment of our Ruddinations.

8-)

_________________________________________________


Yet another stage-managed Labor production being brought to you by our MSM.

8-)

For those of you who fell for it, go hang your heads in shame.

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:27 am

I'm so glad your back... :roll:

So you've got nothing then eh? How unusual for you.

You need to loosen your tinfoil hat there Conspiranut... :rofl
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:49 am

You'd have to expect that this policy will at least affect the economic refugees...
Odd though that now just before an election is due after years... decades of the people on the street telling our politicians what is going on only now they start to wake up or at least acknowledge what we've been saying.
Yes there are economic refugees. (Bob Carr says up to 100% of boat people from certain countries are economic refugees)
Yes there are people smugglers in our ethic communities. (Labor offers a $200,000 bounty on "Australian" people smugglers)
That Australia needs to be taken off the table for country shoppers.
That Indonesia needs to do more. (Indonesia ends visa farce for Iranians)
Rudd's decision will stop the boats, Afghan asylum seekers declare
* by: Paul Toohey Cisarua, West Java
* From: News Limited Network
* July 21, 2013 7:57AM

KEVIN Rudd's Papua New Guinea solution has bit savagely in west Java, where Afghan asylum seekers have immediately begun telling people smugglers they are cancelling their planned boat trips to Christmas Island.

After the Prime Minister's announcement, it did not take long for the news to circulate in the mountain-top resort city of Cisarua, where an estimated 5000 asylum seekers were awaiting to make boat trips.

By Saturday morning, groups of Afghan men, who are highly visible on the streets, were saying they would never accept settlement in Papua New Guinea and began instructing intermediaries working for the smugglers that they would not be going.
Gee I wonder why? I guess they are no longer refugees needing asylum eh.

The Afghans generally do not pay the smugglers in advance. Because the Afghan networks have become such an established business here since 1999, the smugglers trade on their good name and their guarantees to deliver people to Australia.

Afghans - who travel cheaper by boat than people of other nationalities, usually paying around $3000 - told News Corp Australia that they would now register with the UNHCR and wait for legal resettlement because the idea of PNG seemed too shocking to them.

One man, Noor Agha, 35, an ethnic Hazara, told how he had arrived on Ashmore Reef in 2001 and had been shipped on HMAS Tobruk to Nauru. He waited there a year and a half but finally accepted a voluntary repatriation to Afghanistan after his son was born in terrible conditions in the camp. not a genuine refugee...?

He said his return to Afghanistan had been disastrous, with his life in constant danger.

Noor arrived back in Indonesia last month, ready to try again - and hoping he could bring his family after him.

He was awaiting word of a time to be put on a boat when Mr Rudd's announcement changed his world.

"The decision of Kevin Rudd will stop the boats," said Noor, who with a group of friends, also recent arrivals, said they would no longer be going. Not a real refugee then?

"I am hopeful after this decision, Kevin Rudd will take refugees (registered with) UNHCR much quicker."

Asylum seekers rely on smugglers of their own nationality. But Iranians, who have recently outstripped Afghans as the biggest group trying to get to Australia, do not have the same smuggler or information networks as the Afghans.

We spoke to a group of Iranians who had each paid $8000 to get to Australia.
These men were hiding out in a villa awaiting passage, and in the company of lower-rung Iranian in the smuggler network who became irate that we were talking to his clients.

The men were confused about the news from Australia and asked us to explain what was going on.

Told of Mr Rudd's plan - that anyone arrive by boat after Friday would not have any chance of settling in Australia, but could go to PNG if they were found to be refugees - they said they would be going to Australia anyway. :rofl

"We can't get our money back," said one of the Iranians. "We go anyway. We paid the money."

The men, who had all arrived a month ago from Tehran, comforted themselves by saying that the Rudd plan was a political ruse. let's hope not.

Amid the disappointment, there is some hope for the people here who have registered with the UNHCR and are awaiting resettlement to a country, preferably Australia.

They are slowly coming to terms with the fact that the reason they have languished so long in this area without being resettled is because those who have gone ahead in the boats have taken their place in Australia's resettlement program.

But some have lost hope altogether and are stuck, not knowing what to do. One family, who identified as ethnic Tajic from Afghanistan, a group rarely seen in Indonesia, have lost all appeals to be recognised by the UNHCR as refugees. Even the UN do not recognise them as refugees.

The father, Abdul Basir BaShardost, 47, paid money to the smugglers in 2011 to take his wife and five children to Australia but were ripped off.

Mr BaShardost worked for government intelligence in pre-Taliban times and says he is despised by both Taliban hardliners and the current regime. "We have no answers," he said.

Like all families, they are unable to send their children to local schools.

For many who have registered with the UNHCR, the boats were always a last resort - but it was at least an option. Now that has changed. No one we spoke to said they would ever consider taking up a new life in PNG.

For most, it is Australia or nothing. Mr Rudd's PNG solution appears to be having the desired outcome in the heart of the people-smuggling world. Country shoppers...
Read more: http://www.news.com.au/national-news/ru ... z2ZdU0vwft" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I hope this works...
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:00 am

Reward for turning in people 'peddling in misery and death'
July 21, 2013
Bianca Hall, Natalie O'Brien

A $200,000 ''bounty'' has been put on the head of people smugglers in Australia. The Rudd government will pay the reward for the arrest of those involved in the human trade.

Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said people smuggling was increasingly organised in Australia rather than being solely conducted in Indonesia.

''These people are peddling in misery and death [so] we are putting a bounty on their heads. We have taken the product they are selling off the shelves; we also need to lock these people up.''

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd said on Friday all asylum seekers who came by boat would be transferred to Papua New Guinea, where they would be processed and settled if they were found to be refugees.

The ''hardline'' stance has enraged refugee advocates, who are predicting a legal challenge to the measure after successfully defeating the so-called Malaysia solution in the High Court. yet again...

The dramatic toughening of Labor's stance on people seeking asylum has been seen as clearing the decks for the announcement of an election date, as soon as this week.

Australian Federal Police assistant commissioner Ramzi Jabbour said police believed a number of people-smuggling syndicates were operating from Australia, with tentacles in Indonesia and Malaysia.

He said people smuggling was often conducted by refugees who had settled in Australia and wanted to bring their families to join them. yep... been saying it for years...

''There's not one syndicate, there's numerous … and the commodity in this case, unfortunately, are human beings.''

People who facilitate people arriving by boat face 10 years' jail for bringing one person to Australia, and 20 years' jail for bringing five or more people to Australia.

As protests were held in every capital city on Saturday against the new detention and resettlement plan, the first asylum seeker boat to be affected by the government's dramatic policy shift sailed into Australian waters. More than 80 people most of whom are from Iran will be the first to be denied the chance to apply for refugee protection to Australia because they came by boat.

An Indonesian people smuggler source said the policy was unlikely to stop people coming by boat. ''It can't stop boats … I talked to a few smugglers today, they say their passengers are still ready to go by boat. The basic thing is that either in Australia or in PNG, the refugees have to start their lives from zero, and at the most they just want to avoid being killed.'' Except the country shoppers of course...

The government has launched a massive advertising campaign highlighting its new approach to asylum seekers, which will cost $2.1 million in the first week alone. It included full-page newspaper advertisements across the country. Independent Senator Nick Xenophon said he would make a formal complaint about the government's advertising, describing it as a blatantly political campaign paid for by the taxpayer.

The Greens said the Labor party should pay for the campaign.

Opposition Leader Tony Abbott said Australia should not rely on PNG to come to its aid, saying the solution had to be found in Australia.

''And I will never subcontract out to other countries the solution of problems in this country,'' he said. Ah but you already did tony... who is advising you... idiots like Credlin?

Queensland Premier Campbell Newman said given people could ''row across in a tinnie or a canoe'' the four kilometres from Papua New Guinea into Queensland, the agreement with PNG would create a new wave of immigration through the Torres Strait. This is indeed a possibility... but much easier to handle than the Indonesian situation.

But Immigration Minister Tony Burke ridiculed the claims and said there was no conflict between being humanitarian and pragmatic.

''I want there to be fewer people drowning on the high seas, and I make absolutely no apology for that.'' Blah, blah, blah...

PNG's cabinet was told on Friday the Manus Island centre could hold up to 3000 asylum seekers, although Mr Rudd stressed there was no cap on the number of asylum seekers that could be covered by the deal.

The Greens' Sarah Hanson-Young said the deal was ''a rush to cruelty as Kevin Rudd rushes to the polls''. Sarah Hanson-Idiot will hopefully lose her seat... :clap :clap :clap

When the news about Mr Rudd's PNG plan reached asylum seekers waiting in Indonesia, ''it was like a bomb going off'', according to one Iranian man. Bizhan, who has survived a recent boat sinking trying to get to Australia, said people were shocked and confused.

But the 33-year-old said it would stop him getting on another boat. He said he would wait for settlement by the UN refugee program. Bizhan said he believed it would also stop Iranians from taking the people smuggling route from Iran to Australia.

Abdul Karim, a Hazara man who came to Australia by boat in 2000, said he did not believe it would have an immediate impact on arrivals.

''It will take some time for people to hear what has happened,'' he said.

He doubted it would deter asylum seekers as the government's recent halt on the processing of applications had not done that.

Disgusted refugee advocates have branded the plan ''shameful'' and a ''disgraceful and desperate election ploy''.

''The Labor leader who formerly said he would not move to the right on refugees has channelled the very worst of John Howard's anti-refugee policy,'' Ian Rintoul from the Refugee Action Coalition said.

The Asylum Seekers Centre has called on the government to guarantee asylum seekers sent to PNG would be treated with compassion, permitted to reunite with family in Australia and would have access to the fundamental requirements for human dignity - health and education services, housing, and employment opportunities.

with Ben Doherty, Cameron Atfield
Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politics/ ... z2ZdYB7L2p" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

One wonders just how much Australia will be spending on this policy and if we will just be looking after people living in PNG?
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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skippy
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by skippy » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:49 pm

Boofy doesn't care about stopping the boats,now he is onto costs, who gives a fuck about costs.... Boofy just wants to see babies heads smashed against rocks and women and children drown at sea, shame loony fringe shame.

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:29 pm

skippy wrote:Boofy doesn't care about stopping the boats,now he is onto costs, who gives a fuck about costs.... Boofy just wants to see babies heads smashed against rocks and women and children drown at sea, shame loony fringe shame.
Really?
Then you haven't read anything I've actually said then have you ya moron.
You can't go through the rest of your life being a one trick pony can you Skip...
:rofl that's a rhetorical question btw.

Seems to me those are the things others have been blaming the looney Left and The Greens for...
I don't want anyone dying... even the criminals and those who use criminals to gain access to Australia by the back door, even the morons stupid enough to put themselves and their children at risk. Even the liars and cheats who are country shoppers and want to live off our welfare system.

Now hop along little Skippy and lie about someone else.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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skippy
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by skippy » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:08 pm

If you bag Rudds solution, which you have, you want babies to continue to smash their heads against rocks,asshole.

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Rorschach
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Re: Boat people - what is the solution?

Post by Rorschach » Sun Jul 21, 2013 3:31 pm

If?
I have?
really....

care to provide a quote.
No?
I'll provide some for you ya moron...

''I say to Mr Rudd: stop making excuses, stop trying to say this is the world's problem, it's not. It's our problem and we need to take the appropriate action in this country, by this country, for this country to stop the boats and we need to do it now,'' Mr Abbott said. yet we are signatories to the UN Convention, both major parties were party to this. Surely we need to either withdraw from it or amend it to suit today's circumstances. Surely then on this very specific part of the problem Rudd has it right.

This followed comments from Mr Rudd on Wednesday, where he flagged for the first time a review of Australia's obligations under the United Nations Refugee Convention, as part of a new policy aimed at stemming the flow of asylum seeker boats. 'bout time Kevvy said something sensible on this issue.

The Prime Minister signalled the review as part of a three-pronged policy shift to address the issue globally, promote regional co-operation and tighten the refugee assessment process in Australia. Better late than ever eh
Mr Abbott said that the difficulty with the convention was the way it had been imported into Australian law, but did not suggest it had to be updated. Well perhaps he needs to rethink what should be done about it then.

''It's the things that we do here in Australia as Australians that matter. We should get cracking on doing what we need to in this country and on our orders to fix this problem. Not raise yet another red herring: which is Mr Rudd leading some kind of an international crusade to change an international rule,'' he said. It is the convention and our signature that is used to force us to act as we do that is no red herring.
No explanation of what Mr Rudd had in mind when he made his comments yesterday has been forthcoming from his office, although possible areas of focus are Australia's obligations to those who pass through countries where they could lodge refugee claims, and whether permanent residency should be afforded in the first instance. yes... we need to know what changes they are advocating. Something i've been advocating for years
Tony Abbott and the Libs need to shut up on this and stop the politicking... this is not a NO issue... this should be looked at on it's merits and adopted in conjunction with their other ideas.
Yes I mentioned that already.
i already criticised Abbott and co about that.

If the libs do a me too... then they'd just be copying Rudd's successful tactic during the election against Howard.

Pity Rudd didn't leave a working policy in place and consider the Convention changes like I did a decade ago... Conservatives have been asking for such action for years... Rudd messed with and broke a working policy and Labor and Rudd have done nothing about it to fix the thing that they broke with any success so far, including their latest idea... Rudd likes a conference especially if it is overseas... he is so far all talk and no action on this.
You'd have to expect that this policy will at least affect the economic refugees...
Odd though that now just before an election is due after years... decades of the people on the street telling our politicians what is going on only now they start to wake up or at least acknowledge what we've been saying.
Yes there are economic refugees. (Bob Carr says up to 100% of boat people from certain countries are economic refugees)
Yes there are people smugglers in our ethic communities. (Labor offers a $200,000 bounty on "Australian" people smugglers)
That Australia needs to be taken off the table for country shoppers.
That Indonesia needs to do more. (Indonesia ends visa farce for Iranians)

All my words on the subject are in red you dope... mostly criticising Abbott and the failed policies of the past some of which Rudd and the ALP are responsible for.

Now where is there anything I have said that reflect anything like your lies about me and my opinion? Hmmm
Nowhere
pity you don't read stuff before you spout shit.
DOLT - A person who is stupid and entirely tedious at the same time, like bwian. Oblivious to their own mental incapacity. On IGNORE - Warrior, mellie, Nom De Plume, FLEKTARD

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