Can we trust China?

[mantra.]

Rudd needs to state exactly what our ties are with China. Already this government is considering breaking its self-imposed $200 billion limit on borrowings as it blows out the deficit to fight off the expected recession. I still don't understand why Lefty and Monk insist that this government isn't borrowing considering they have admitted China is lending them at least $500 million per week, not to mention the 50 year carte blanche lease for our resources.

THE disclosure of the rift within Defence over China is another example of how Beijing's rise as a global power is confounding the Rudd Government.

The debate boils down to whether China should be trusted. Is its military expansion a benign and natural accessory to its growing political and economic clout or something more frightening? Similar issues of trust lie at the heart of the Government's quandary about Beijing's sweeping play for Australian resource companies, in particular its proposed $US19.5 billion ($27 billion) deal between China's state-owned Chinalco and miner Rio Tinto.

Are these benign investments that will benefit the economy and jobs or a back-door way for Beijing to exert unhealthy control over the country's resources?

On both military and economic issues, the Government gives the appearance of being in deep conflict about how far to trust its largest trading partner. And then there are the disclosures in this newspaper about the extent of China's cyber espionage, the "secret" meeting between Rudd and China's propaganda chief, Li Changchun, and the ongoing controversy about Defence Minister Joel Fitzgibbon's links with Chinese businesswoman Helen Liu.

All up, it is clear that the issue of China, which should have been a strength for our Mandarin-speaking Prime Minister, is causing him growing grief.

The triumph within the Defence establishment of the China hawks over the China doves is a reminder that there will always be limits to the embrace with China. The Prime Minister needs to define this relationship, and its limits, more clearly and more openly than he has so far.

[skippy]

Good question mantra, you could look at it like this ,do we trust the USA? they may not have invaded us with guns but we are certainly under their control.
As for China, I doubt they'll be storming the shore any time soon and I don"t look at them as a major threat to our security, Indonesia are our biggest concern, the Indonesians call Australia south Irian jia and consider it theirs,if there's any threat from foreign invasion its them we need to worry about,
China could well be an ally in that case.

[Jovial Monk]

Wish you would get over this China obsession. Used to be the yanks owned all our big companies--were you worried then?

The Chinese are only buying like 20% of the bonds being issued.

Sheepy made one of his charmingly racist remarks about Ozminerals selling assets to the Chinese (didn't mention somehow that thanks to Swan OM's most promising asset, Prospect Hill, is still owned by OM.

Skippy that stuff about Indonesian maps being called "South Irian" was mentioned once by someone when the Indos were allowed to ravage East Papua and its peoples--it has no basis in fact.

[skippy]

There's lots of stuff about south irian jaya about and it all says thats what Indonesia call Australia, but that aside. I do think the biggest security threat Australia have in the future is Indonesia not China.
I read a book about twenty years ago, I think it was called south of the border, and it was set in the year 2012 and Indonesia had invaded Australia and Australia had given up " the brisbane line" to them, it was great fiction, hope it stays that way.

[Jovial Monk]

If Indo ever builds up a huge Navy & Airforce then you might have to worry.

People relying on the ANZUS treaty to have the yanks come here to defend us are living in a fool's paradise: all those Fib politicians raving on about it were *lying*

[mantra.]

Wish you would get over this China obsession. Used to be the yanks owned all our big companies--were you worried then?

China is taking us by stealth Monk and as far as the US goes - they're the ones who have got us into this mess in the first place. I don't know where you get your information from where you keep saying that the Chinese are only buying 20% of the bonds being issued. The fact is the US is so indebted to China - we have to help pay them back.

They are like a giant luxurious ship and the rest of the G20 are the little tug boats trying to drag the damn thing to safety and it doesn't matter whether some of us sink along the way.

Bush has got a lot to answer for, but it will be a good many years before he makes an appearance again. He's no doubt hiding under some rock.

[Ethnic]

Can we trust China?

Can we trust anyone?

[TomB]

Can we trust anyone?

Precisely.

[JW Frogen]

"Trust, but verify."

Always count those inscrutable devils won tons.

[mantra.]

Yes China is so trustworthy that even our own Mandarin speaking PM is getting a little worried.

KEVIN Rudd is set to announce Australia's biggest military build-up since World War II, led by a multi-billion-dollar investment in maritime defence, including 100 new F-35 fighters, a doubling of the submarine fleet, and powerful new surface warships.

The new defence white paper will outline plans for a fundamental shake-up of Australia's defence organisation to ensure that the nation can meet what the Prime Minister sees as a far more challenging and uncertain security outlook in Asia over the next two decades.

China's steadily growing military might and the prospect of sharper strategic competition among Asia's great powers are driving the maritime build-up, which will see new-generation submarines and warships equipped with cruise missiles, and a big new investment in anti-submarine warfare and electronic warfare platforms, including new naval helicopters.

The white paper will consider the emerging non-traditional threats to Australia, including cyber security, climate change and its associated risk of large uncontrolled people movements.

Senior government sources say Mr Rudd has insisted that defence spending remain largely insulated from the Government's budget difficulties, but the Defence Department will still have to find at least $15 billion of internal savings over the next decade to help pay for the $100 billion-plus long-term equipment plan.

Mr Rudd said yesterday the delivery of the white paper was proving "acutely challenging as we work to defend ourselves from the global economic storm".

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 01,00.html