Global Warming

[IQS.RLOW]

They're good for kicking when Aussies not around

[Neferti]

They're good for kicking when Aussies not around

Agreed.

[AiA in Atlanta]

No, it's like saying you want to insure your house against a particular cat shitting in your house and accepting the shysters premium at $50K a year with no guarantee that he can stop that particular cat and if you do find cat shit in your house, it will probably be from the other 96% of cats in the area.

No, it's like being a fat disgusting 300 lb slob laying on the couch all day watching TV and smoking cigarettes and saying, "Why the fuck should I bother - I am going to be dead in 50 years anyway."


IQ at home

[IQS.RLOW]

nice adhom.
Understandable as your argument is as weak as piss with no facts, smothered with motherhood statements and appeals for "doing the right thing".

Cries of "We must do something" with no logical or economic reason why or how means you've lost the argument before you started.

Join the Greens and save gay whales...it's what your argument adds up to

[Super Nova]

IQ and doubters... please read this article completely.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/impacts.htm

The final section is.... and it was published this year (Feb 2013) so up-to-date.

* There will be significant unforeseen impacts. Most of these will probably be harmful, since human and natural systems are well adapted to the present climate.
The climate system and ecosystems are complex and only partly understood, so there is a chance that the impacts will not be as bad as predicted. There is a similar chance of impacts grievously worse than predicted.
If the CO2 level keeps rising to well beyond twice the pre-industrial level along with a rise of other greenhouse gases, as must inevitably happen if we do not take strong action soon, the results will certainly be worse. Under a "business as usual" scenario, recent calculations give even odds that global temperature will rise 5°C or more by the end of the century — causing a radical reorganization and impoverishment of many of the ecosystems that sustain our civilization.(25)
All this is projected to happen to people who are now alive. What of the more distant future? If emissions continue to rise for a century — whether because we fail to rein them in, or because we set off an unstoppable feedback loop in which the warming itself causes ever more greenhouse gases to be evaporated into the air — then the gases will reach a level that the Earth has not seen since tens of millions of years ago. The consequences will take several centuries to be fully realized, as the Earth settles into its new state. It is probable that, as in the distant geological eras with high CO2, sea levels will be many tens of meters higher and the average global temperature will soar far above the present value: a planet grossly unlike the one to which the human species is adapted.


This supports my view and articulates it with Facts as requested.

There is no logical argument for doing nothing.................

[annielaurie]

Super Nova quoted:

If the CO2 level keeps rising to well beyond twice the pre-industrial level along with a rise of other greenhouse gases, as must inevitably happen if we do not take strong action soon, the results will certainly be worse. Under a "business as usual" scenario, recent calculations give even odds that global temperature will rise 5°C or more by the end of the century — causing a radical reorganization and impoverishment of many of the ecosystems that sustain our civilization.

All this is projected to happen to people who are now alive. What of the more distant future? If emissions continue to rise for a century — whether because we fail to rein them in, or because we set off an unstoppable feedback loop in which the warming itself causes ever more greenhouse gases to be evaporated into the air — then the gases will reach a level that the Earth has not seen since tens of millions of years ago.

The consequences will take several centuries to be fully realized, as the Earth settles into its new state. It is probable that, as in the distant geological eras with high CO2, sea levels will be many tens of meters higher and the average global temperature will soar far above the present value: a planet grossly unlike the one to which the human species is adapted.

I would be able to accept at least some of this. But no matter what the cause or combination of factors, the climate appears to be changing toward overall warmer temps, more CO2 trapped in the atmosphere, the melting of ice caps and glaciers, the rising of sea levels around the world, the flooding of coastal cities, and the loss of natural habitat for many plant and animal species - including us.

I have never believed that a carbon tax will do much toward the process of adapting, I believe it is the wrong approach. I believe adaptation and education are the answers.

I envision a radical change in the way we think our civilization should be - and that will require education in economics, sociology, ethics, physics, chemistry, maths and sciences.

We might want to consider modifying the way we grow and distribute food around the world, cleaning up our industrial processes, our modes of transportation, our infrastructure, new and better sourses of energy, and so on.

I envision education taking the place of religion. I'm thinking something like this for the future: religion viewed not as an actual belief system but in terms of historical importance through the lense of its influence on culture, holy books interpreted as literature only, churches become museums or libraries, and in schools science and math taking the place of superstition and "magic" to explain the way nature works.

I wrote this post a couple pages back, last night,

Well then humanity might start thinking about adapting to a permanently warmer climate with sea levels that will eventually flood many coastal cities around the world.

How about skipping the carbon tax and starting to plan for a new way of life that would benefit people, such as building floating cities offshore, and modifying the way we grow and produce food, things like that.

[Super Nova]

I have never believed that a carbon tax will do much toward the process of adapting, I believe it is the wrong approach

I agree.

The rest I do not. Just because there is a natural cycle doesn't mean you ignore the effects of our contribution and the effect on our long term environment. The costs will be huge compared to starting to do something about it soon.

Have you read the whole paper I posted the link to?

[annielaurie]

Nova, I said yes I could accept the science involved in climate change. I am not ignoring the contribution of human industrialization.

Yes I read the whole article. So what don't you agree with about the ideas I wrote in my post?

[IQS.RLOW]

IQ and doubters... please read this article completely.

http://www.aip.org/history/climate/impacts.htm

The final section is.... and it was published this year (Feb 2013) so up-to-date.

* There will be significant unforeseen impacts. Most of these will probably be harmful, since human and natural systems are well adapted to the present climate.
The climate system and ecosystems are complex and only partly understood, so there is a chance that the impacts will not be as bad as predicted. There is a similar chance of impacts grievously worse than predicted.
If the CO2 level keeps rising to well beyond twice the pre-industrial level along with a rise of other greenhouse gases, as must inevitably happen if we do not take strong action soon, the results will certainly be worse. Under a "business as usual" scenario, recent calculations give even odds that global temperature will rise 5°C or more by the end of the century — causing a radical reorganization and impoverishment of many of the ecosystems that sustain our civilization.(25)
All this is projected to happen to people who are now alive. What of the more distant future? If emissions continue to rise for a century — whether because we fail to rein them in, or because we set off an unstoppable feedback loop in which the warming itself causes ever more greenhouse gases to be evaporated into the air — then the gases will reach a level that the Earth has not seen since tens of millions of years ago. The consequences will take several centuries to be fully realized, as the Earth settles into its new state. It is probable that, as in the distant geological eras with high CO2, sea levels will be many tens of meters higher and the average global temperature will soar far above the present value: a planet grossly unlike the one to which the human species is adapted.


This supports my view and articulates it with Facts as requested.

There is no logical argument for doing nothing.................

I burn my leftover sump oil and old tyres, that is 'something'...

There is no logical argument for doing 'something' because you have not articulated what that 'something' should be.

[Outlaw Yogi]

* There will be significant unforeseen impacts. ...

Agreed .. eg widespread ground water/aquifer salination .. increased biting insect populations resulting from more favourable breeding conditions .. all sorts of annoying stuff

...
The climate system and ecosystems are complex and only partly understood, so there is a chance that the impacts will not be as bad as predicted. There is a similar chance of impacts grievously worse than predicted.
If the CO2 level keeps rising to well beyond twice the pre-industrial level along with a rise of other greenhouse gases, as must inevitably happen if we do not take strong action soon, the results will certainly be worse. ...

Well I've been saying for years now, due to the actions of those in positions to effect or implement remedial action, who have either done their utmost to pollute more, or try to make money out of permission/license to pollute more, that nobody has a genuine plan or even intention to pollute less, just schemes on how to make the public pay for polluting more.
And considering the behavior of some of these Texan jesus freak doomsday cultist oil barons, it seems that if they can't spark WW3 in Israel they'll melt the planet to destroy the world, so jesus can come save them.