Education: General Discussion

[Aussie]

How many people do you know, in their early 30s, who are teachers, but who are also as dumb as dog shit, cannot spell, would not know what a logarithm is, would not not know what an atom is, would have nil idea where Rio is, and would not have a clue who the current PM is? I know at least one.....my eldest, yet she is regarded as one of the better teachers at her Primary School.

[AiA in Atlanta]

The standard of education in the US declined a long time before ours did, so the dumbed down young population became available for cannon fodder in their numerous wars. Perhaps this is planned for Australia?

The USA has generally done well with its public education system but thing have been a little rocky the last 3 decades beginning with the introduction to make it more *fair* and *inclusive* and parents and students have quickly taken advantage of that to the point that teachers have been degraded and schools often turned into plush resorts for kids who in the past would have been at a special institution or not in school at all.

We shouldn't forget that public education has a spirit of optimism regarding human potential that has been lacking for most of human history.

[wog_girl]

Rubbish. Although the irony of a teacher blaming their own much smarter, more highly educated and paid teachers for them being unable to hack it in the workplace is utterly delicious.

Education isn't a career choice, it's a backup plan for failures. The entry scores are the lowest of the low, there are no pre-requisites, and the program is offered by institutes which are hardly universities but little more than tafes. Teachers, while well paid and with tenurable career paths, are not respected by the community. They are seen as overpaid, poorly educated babysitters who work half days or mothers hours. As a result no one with decent scores wants to be one and the downward spiral continues.

That is not to say there are not a minority of truely talented and energetic people called to the vocation because it is an honest passion. Who knows, perhaps you are one of those few who gave up the option of medicine to teach disinterested youth. But the vast majority are under performing slackers, and should be ashamed.

If that's your belief then continue to live like a mushroom. I couldn't care less.

[wog_girl]

How many people do you know, in their early 30s, who are teachers, but who are also as dumb as dog shit, cannot spell, would not know what a logarithm is, would not not know what an atom is, would have nil idea where Rio is, and would not have a clue who the current PM is? I know at least one.....my eldest, yet she is regarded as one of the better teachers at her Primary School.

I can't speak for primary school teachers but alot of people love to rip into high school teachers for not knowing certain things but if you are a specialist teacher then why do you need to know about things unrelated to your job? I specialise in Maths, Science and PE so why do I care where Rio is? Would you trust your doctor or dentist less because they don't know where Rio is?

[Aussie]

Would you trust your doctor or dentist less because they don't know where Rio is?

No, not at all.....but I would be pissed orf if she did not know where my molars were.

[Mattus]

if you are a specialist teacher then why do you need to know about things unrelated to your job? I specialise in Maths, Science and PE so why do I care where Rio is?

Perhaps because when it is discovered that the teacher has less general knowledge than a fifth grader, an eighth grader will have no respect for them. Especially in this age where, with just a touch of the phone, the eighth grader (and he fifth grader too, for that mater) can both confirm the teacher's ignorance and broadcast it to the entire class / school / world.

When the students don't respect the teachers, education will fail. What is worse is that the students will grow up thinking that education is the career of last resort for the ignorant, and no one with a modicum of talent or ability would wish to pursue it, so the downward spiral of education continues.

Would you trust your doctor or dentist less because they don't know where Rio is?

It is a bit of a stretch comparing a "specialist" teacher with a doctor or dentist. Nevertheless, I would certainly expect my doctor or dentist to have at least the general knowledge level of a fifth grader. To be honest I would expect it of my kids teacher too, though I would be disappointed more often than not.

[Sexy Lady]

The quality of teachers has diminshed and I will be the first to admit that. The problem is the universities - they just don't teach the future teachers very well. I wanted to specialise in science, mathematics and physical education but the elective subjects available were so distorted that I was better off just sleeping through the lectures and reading my high school text books. In the end I got nothing out of my time at university and put alot of my own time just in getting up to scratch - something I would have thought the university should have done considering the money I paid. There was so much focus on failed and unproven ideologies making learning fun at all times rather than the core content which students must learn to get a job. Believe me, teachers don't need to be told the best way to deliver a lesson - we quickly figure it out once in the classroom and it is always changing. On top of that, we have to put up with the "spare the rod, spoil the child" idiocy of education bureaucracy.

In my experience, as a parent looking in, the quality of teaching is impacted by as many variables as humanity has to offer given the circumstances entailed. Some are dedicated to the art of teaching, others are dedicated (or sufficiently so) but equality influenced by other factors or multiple factors including, unionism, bureaucracy, chain of command, personal or medical priorities... and so it goes.

It's also true that teaching standards, across all levels of education, has and is failing our young. They are not as wise as they should be, given the years of knowledge imparted. In some ways, because it has been going on for at least a generation, it's like watching the blind leading the blind. I would agree with wog_girl's casual assessment and add; The curricular and teaching methods need to be reviewed.

[Sexy Lady]

I know what damaged education standards.

It's a politically correct social engineering project called 'affirmative action'.

A regime where promotion is based on gender or race rather than merit or ability.

I do not think that gender of a teacher affects ability to learn. Equally, I've read no studies that have explored that idea.

[Sexy Lady]

Let me guess...

Hmmm... Here we are having a general discussion on education no less, where reason and knowledge are required, and you want to guess?

And to what are you guessing?

...you went to a "university" which was a former teaching college, completely lacks any credible basic science or mathematics program, requires no pre-requisites beyond a pass grade in english, and you are surprised at the nursery school bullshit you had to sit through in first year?

I see. You wanted to guess that another person engaged in discussion lacked any form of credible education. Were you right? Answer: No!

May I ask then, aside from wasting bandwidth and causing others to doubt your knowledge base and reasoning abilities, what purpose was this guessing game of yours to the topic under discussion?

If your professors taught only basic pedagogy backed by high school level knowledge, it's not because they didn't know or couldn't offer any better.

Yet you do not say why this is so... and why this is so, goes to the very heart of this discussion.

Teachers are taught the universities' syllabus which is aligned to the government's education and teaching policies. If something is lacking in that process, it is a policy issue or an issue with the way those respective universities interpret education and teaching policy.

After all, they are professors and you are just a school teacher.

And you are just an ordinary person who knows it, and does not like it, but cannot change it, so takes it out on others.

It's because the sorts of students who get into education based on their entry scores would struggle and fail with anything more challenging. Pretty sure they were working their asses off just to get you lot passed through.

What scores, all out of 50 (for the sake of the argument), would you say are suitable tertiary entrance scores?

Lets face it, if you had the grades to deal with a serious science program, why would you be taking education?

Perhaps their desire to share knowledge is greater than their desire to create new knowledge.
Perhaps their ability to share knowledge is greater than their ability to create new knowledge.

Scientists after all, and you were alluding to those with the grades becoming scientists, create knowledge through experimental method and observation... and not everyone who loves science is wanting or able to create knowledge.

[Sexy Lady]

The USA has generally done well with its public education system but thing have been a little rocky the last 3 decades beginning with the introduction to make it more *fair* and *inclusive* and parents and students have quickly taken advantage of that to the point that teachers have been degraded and schools often turned into plush resorts for kids who in the past would have been at a special institution or not in school at all.

So far as I understand the US education system, the funding for schools is derived from the community, which is why there is such disparity between the schools of upper and lower economic strata.

Also, I'm not sure what this *inclusive* and *fair* education system is. In Australia, we usually include our very bright amongst the ordinaries, but not low IQ children who attend *special* schools. There are also *community* schools for socially dysfunctional children.

I would argue that the very bright and dedicated bright should have their own *special* schools also. I'm not a fan of *inclusive* school systems. They are not very *fair*. Too much potential for all of the students is wasted due to unreasonable competition, unintentional bias, confused perceptions and the like. Much better for the teachers to teach to a more refined intellectual range so that everyone can stay on the same page and do the journey of education together.

We shouldn't forget that public education has a spirit of optimism regarding human potential that has been lacking for most of human history.

We should also remember, that if we want people to have an equal opportunity at life (according to their abilities and desires), then we must acknowledge our differences and work with them, not against them.